Scaling Mojo: How to Build a Subscription App with 40M+ Downloads

[00:00:00.000] - Olivier Destrebecq
Welcome to the Subscription League, a podcast by Purchasely. Listen to what's working in subscription apps. In each episode, we invite leaders of the app industry who are mastering the subscription model for mobile apps. To learn more about subscriptions, head to subscriptionleague.com. Let's get started.

[00:00:20.340] - Olivier Destrebecq
Welcome to the show, everybody. Today, I have Francescu Santoni with me, who's the CEO at Mojo. Mojo is a reels and story-making app. Welcome to the show, Francescu.

[00:00:30.030] - Francescu Santoni
Thank you very much for having me.

[00:00:31.820] - Olivier Destrebecq
You're welcome. I also have my co-host, Jeff. How are you, Jeff?

[00:00:34.710] - Jeff Grang
I'm great. Super happy to have Francescu around.

[00:00:36.960] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yes, it's going to be a great interview. Just to set the stage, you're at Mojo, you guys got over 40 million downloads. I'm sure there's maybe an even more recent stat, but 40 million is already pretty impressive.

[00:00:49.310] - Francescu Santoni
Yeah, we don't update on all the numbers, but we share a lot of magnitudes, but it's a bit more now.

[00:00:57.250] - Olivier Destrebecq
Another impressive part is that you guys are bootstrapped, so you got lots of downloads without really raising capital. I'm sure there's lots of interesting story behind that, and we'll get to that. But I figured I'd try something a little different for you for the intro, and I would ask you, can you introduce Mojo by doing your elevator pitch for Mojo?

[00:01:17.060] - Francescu Santoni
As you said, we are not raising. We did raise a bit, actually, at the very beginning, but nowadays, I don't have to do elevator pitch. But, let me try. Mojo is a mobile app that enables everyone, which is very important, to create stunning, beautiful videos for their social media, super easily TikTok reels stories.

[00:01:41.320] - Olivier Destrebecq
Awesome. You said for everyone, and that was important. Can you clarify that a little bit?

[00:01:45.310] - Francescu Santoni
I think the main differentiator of Mojo is that it's very, very accessible, super easy to use, because we're targeting from regular B2C users to small businesses, business owners, and all of this. We want it to be super easy. That's also why I love, and we love mobile for this kind of accessibility democratization part.

[00:02:08.580] - Jeff Grang
That means that even iOS developers, like we both are, can create amazing videos, right?

[00:02:14.750] - Francescu Santoni
Yeah. iOS developers like us are often the worst users.

[00:02:18.210] - Jeff Grang
The three of us. Olivier also you are.

[00:02:20.070] - Olivier Destrebecq
I am. I count myself in. It's a full house today. Mojo was not your first app. You've worked on virtual reality apps before, and so you pivoted to Mojo. I'm curious about that time where you guys decided the virtual reality app was not the thing any more and decided, "Okay, we need to do something else," and you landed on Mojo. What happened there?

[00:02:44.240] - Francescu Santoni
It's a very interesting story. Basically, we left our job at GoPro after an acquisition with my co-founder, and we started to look out for projects to create, mostly around mobile data, and at the time, AI, but other AI like the previous one, deep learning. At some point, we got into Y Combinator with this augmented reality, not virtual reality, but nowadays, it's a bit the same. We went to YC with something called Arrow, and basically it was still videos. You were creating animated text, but in the real world, and then also a lot of effect and a social network inside. We worked on that for almost a year, eight or nine months.

[00:03:23.990] - Francescu Santoni
The very app part, and I think that can also relate to a lot of app makers, was with Arrow, we basically had a lot of wow effect and a lot of great moments. It's not like the app was not working. The app got several hundreds of thousands of downloads. It got featured by Apple a lot. When you tried the app, the wow effect was incredible. People were really impressed. It was very hard to take that decision because basically all of our social life became… The way that you perceive was around this amazing app. But we had almost zero retention. That's engagement, metrics were super low. It was fun, but useless, to be honest. Fun, but useless app.

[00:04:08.210] - Francescu Santoni
Augmented reality was way, way too early. I think even right now with Vision Pro, it's starting to change. But we were a huge believer, but at some point you have to admit that you were wrong. We decided like-

[00:04:21.250] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yeah, there has to be a business model.

[00:04:22.460] - Francescu Santoni
It was like social network, and really all the bad choices, I would say. After the summer was the moment that we actually decided to pivot out of augmented reality. Before that, we did a lot of intra-pivot. You try different angle into the app. But after those three weeks of vacation during the summer, that break will make you take those kind of decision. But that was really a low point of our venture.

[00:04:52.470] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yeah, I'm sure.

[00:04:53.700] - Jeff Grang
Did you change your North Star KPI for your company?

[00:04:56.350] - Francescu Santoni
Yes. Actually, that pivot that made us decide to go for monetisation and subscription. End of 2018, subscriptions for consumer apps was not as much developed, I think, than it is right now. It was not an easy choice, but we decided, "Okay, now we want to make something which is not just impressive and fun. We want to create something that is useful. Retention being an outcome metric, how can we measure that earlier in the funnel? Okay, let's make people pay." That's how we started from the day zero of the app, putting a subscription.

[00:05:33.710] - Francescu Santoni
At the time, we put 30 days trial period because we were very ashamed of the app that we were launching. We were not proud. But from the get-go, it started to generate revenue.

[00:05:45.500] - Olivier Destrebecq
I'm curious to say you put that 30-day trial period because you weren't proud of what you put out there. If you were to do it again today, would you make it longer, would you make it shorter, that trial, or would you not even put a trial period?

[00:06:00.100] - Francescu Santoni
No. I think what we do today is seven days, or sometimes it's three days. But I think basically it's almost a business decision. We have several ads, and in the same person, fighting each other. In my side, it's the iOS developer, the maker versus the businessman, and also the French versus the American YC entrepreneur. As French and maker, it was like, and even today, the app is not good. Let's make sure that people do not pay if they don't want. Not all this kind of always thinking about the worst-case scenario, versus, now what I realize is you're bringing value to a lot of users. I'm a paid user of a lot of apps, and I'm very happy, so let them decide. I think they can see the value of the app in seven days or two days. Then they have a choice.

[00:06:49.820] - Francescu Santoni
Yeah, of course, if I could go back in time, I would put maybe seven days. But also I think it was a way for us to be reassured and be able also to break the app. Because the day you ship with subscription, I think there's not only upside, but also some downside with your stuff, to be careful to break a product that people pay for. So when you have 30 days, at least at the beginning, it allows you to take more risk, I would say. It's a bit more fun.

[00:07:13.520] - Olivier Destrebecq
You talked about the early days, but Mojo, you launched in 2018. We're in 2024. There's been lots of growth and changes. What were the phases that you went through with Mojo?

[00:07:24.330] - Francescu Santoni
There's different phases. We can think about growth, we can think about the app, and we can think about the culture of the company. I can start with the growth. We are at this first stage of pure organic growth. I think we went to $300 or $400,000 per month with $0 of ad spend, and that was because, and thanks to Apple for the featuring, again, because they loved our products and they still, and thanks to you, Apple, if you are watching. No, they were very useful. I know that Jeff is also Apple fanboy like me. Maybe you are too, Olivier. Apple was It's very helpful and supportive.

[00:08:01.960] - Francescu Santoni
But also we are lucky enough to have an app which has an inherent, an intrinsic distribution and fair advantage. Why? Because we enable people to create those stunning videos. If those videos are stunning enough, beautiful enough, people will ask them because our user, intrinsically, want to share those videos to the most people they can. If we succeed in our mission and the video is beautiful enough, and they succeed in their mission to make that visible, then people ask them, "How? How do you do? How did you do?" Because especially at that time, we invented a format. Animated posters and stories, they simply didn't exist before Mojo. There were similar things, more static, but animated like this, it didn't exist.

[00:08:46.340] - Francescu Santoni
When people started to share that, they got a lot of questions, and then we got this compounding snowball effect. Then we went a bit into user acquisition, so paid. We paid some of those influencers at the time. Then we paid, and we still pay, Meta, TikTok, those channel of paid marketing that helped us grow. We had also this huge growth during COVID. I think you're either a COVID hater or a COVID lover in terms of business.

[00:09:15.650] - Olivier Destrebecq
What might Mojo fall into the COVID success, maybe not COVID lovers.

[00:09:21.310] - Francescu Santoni
You have to imagine that maybe that's not so obvious, but most of our paying users actually have a professional intent, whether they're small businesses and things like that. Small businesses can be physical, like local venues, for example, but also online services and e-commerce. Those local venues, during COVID, they had to be visible on social media. Not only they had to, but they had time to do it. They started to really create a lot of content, and Mojo was perfect for that. For us, it was a huge great thing. Then we had also our COVID hangover, which hit us hard, I think like most of the tech. We had a rebound with switching. Basically, Mojo was really famous for stories, and now we're adding a lot of layers of utility. Then we became famous for more of our TikTok and reels, trending sound templates, that are more like music clips and stuff like that.

[00:10:19.680] - Francescu Santoni
Nowadays, our growth, which is based mostly on the speech content, so subtitles and people that talk in front of a camera. There is this huge trend. Basically, it moved from creators to regular people, like small businesses. They have a lot of things to share, so they have a huge need to create this content, and the people want to watch that. It's easy for us, thanks to AI, to create the best automated edit with speech content. That was the gross, I would say, story. I did a bit of the features one. Stories, reels and TikTok, and speech and AI. That's our three main phases, I would say. From template, basically, template-based also to more AI-based and storytelling-based content.

[00:11:05.710] - Jeff Grang
Does the fingerprinting that you can add on videos before paying, because a lot of these apps actually have Powered by, Made by, et cetera, Made using Mojo, et cetera. Does that help? For example, we have it on our Payrolls at Purchasely, we have a Powered by Purchasely, and from time to time, we have new customers because they saw the payroll in one competitor's app have come and say, "Hey, we're interested about what you're doing?" Does that work also in your ecosystem and especially on social media?

[00:11:30.530] - Francescu Santoni
Yeah, we often played back and forth with watermark. When you add your logo, of course, or your name on the video. At the beginning, basically, we enabled free users also to remove the watermark, because the format that we invented was so much different than any other competitor that we didn't need even these kinds of things. Nowadays, I have to say that the competition is much harder, which makes it maybe also more fun. We have this system to make sure that the visibility is spread and get an intrinsic virality and organic growth. But we do also some time-to-time testing. This podcast is about subscription and business.

[00:12:13.860] - Francescu Santoni
Most of the people might have the same choice to make between, "Do you favour your freemium model or do you favour early monetisation?" Also, if you make that watermark big enough, then you will favour more monetisation if you make people pay to remove them, but they won't share with it. Then you will get less virality and less freemium usage. Depending, also as a company, what you need, because the lucky part is that you can do the strategy. When you need short-term growth, you can put that a bit bigger to make user pay to remove that. I think that might be also your case. When you are more confident into the long term, you're more working on that. You can make that a bit more smaller, more discrete, or make that free to remove.

[00:12:57.020] - Jeff Grang
Or you can do it like the user generates exports, the bigger the logo.

[00:13:01.150] - Francescu Santoni
Or the other way around.

[00:13:03.190] - Jeff Grang
We've been on the App Store long enough to have seen all the transition before even Mojo, and we are early developers on the App Store, and we know each other for quite a while. We have seen all that transition from free and paid apps, then the introduction of in-app purchases, and way many years after the introduction of subscriptions. Today, we can say that subscription has overtaken the stores. Why did that happen? And do you think it will last?

[00:13:29.330] - Francescu Santoni
I think it's several reasons. Some of them are more like macro society and the way people as users, they are prone to accept and pay for subscription, so that one is very macroeconomic. That is a behavioural change. And the way people perceive software also. Because before subscription and even software, paying for software was only B2B, right? That changed over the years and up until nowadays, we can have B2C subscription on mobile. The behaviour has changed. Also, there's something that intrinsically, I think works well, is the subscription model enables the alignment between the company, the business, and the users. Basically, if you stop bringing me value, I will stop paying for your app rather than paying upfront.

[00:14:15.900] - Francescu Santoni
I think if you think about all of those models, I think this one works well. I think in video games, for example, it's more like you pay per usage or things like that, where you have few users paying a lot. I think it's still a thing, like Waze and stuff like that. But I think for regular software, and especially, for Mojo is especially true because we're bringing a lot of new content, a lot of new features every month. You cannot just stop everything and expect people to continue to be subscribed.

[00:14:48.210] - Jeff Grang
You're telling us that all the latest features are the most used features of your app?

[00:14:54.060] - Francescu Santoni
Yeah, it's compounding. Basically, the shift from if you look at new users and creation, the thing that we shipped now less than a year or two ago, are used by most of the people, so more than 50% of the usage. Yes, of course. But it's also compounding because then when you are working with release, and then you do Mojo 1, and then you make people pay for Mojo 2 and 3, and still some desktop apps do that. I don't know, every other developer software, and then every year you have to repay to reput your card number. I don't want to quote [inaudible 00:15:29] or something like that. I think they switched to subscription.

[00:15:33.530] - Francescu Santoni
It's like, "Okay, I will upgrade, but I don't even know why." It's put cognitive lot. With app like Mojo, even yourself, you bring continuous value. For us, social media is evolving. Technologies are evolving a lot. What we're able to bring in term of content design, trends, but also in term of features because of AI, and thanks to new devices that are more and more powerful, is constantly, constantly changing. But that's both a good news and also a threat because the competition is hard. New incumbent can arrive and create their own app because then from a day to the other, you can stop your subscription and pay for another app, which it's further also a competition, which personally I love.

[00:16:20.030] - Olivier Destrebecq
Have you guys explored at all the lifetime purchase, one-time purchase, as an alternative to subscription? I know some people are talking about that. I'm not sure if you've explored it.

[00:16:29.420] - Francescu Santoni
Yes, that's also something that we talk about sometimes from time to time. That's also something that we consider at the launch of Mojo. The issue with that, we don't exclude to try it because only stupid people don't change their mind. But if you look on the lifetime value that you provide to the user. I think you have still, in our case, it's not huge, but servers to pay, new content to develop, new features to develop. In the end, if everyone was lifetime, your own incentive will be to, instead of continuously updating the app, to do a Mojo 2, Mojo 3, and make that Mojo 1 user pay for Mojo 2 and say, "Yeah, it's a lifetime." That's always happened.

[00:17:07.670] - Francescu Santoni
Of course, there are some exceptions, but in the end, it doesn't scale. It's great to generate more, again, short-term value for the business and also great perceived value on the spot for the user. But I don't think that on the long run, it's a good thing. I'm not sure. You should compute the number both as a business and as a user. I'm not sure.

[00:17:27.630] - Olivier Destrebecq
My thoughts have always been if you take your average lifetime value of a user, and you set your lifetime licence to just above that price, then it should be a win-win.

[00:17:38.790] - Jeff Grang
We've seen on our side some of our customers struggling with this because all the users that already know that they are going to use it for a long time are going to take that lifetime subscription while they could have been paying much more. So it's not only the average, it's more when you profile it to the people that are keen to subscribe to this product, it's usually the people that will have stick with you for a really long time. They have spent way more than just the average two times a year early or something like that, where the lifetime subscribers are usually priced.

[00:18:10.650] - Olivier Destrebecq
Mojo's initial success was to allow users to easily create animate posters. But social media evolves pretty fast and you have to keep up. How do you guys keep up with the latest influencers and latest trends and then innovate and create those new features?

[00:18:27.110] - Francescu Santoni
First, we naturally talk a lot to our users. I will quote in Y Combinator there, but talk to users really is first. I think that's the secret to make things that people love. Sometimes we see also trends, we follow a lot, of course, and we do a lot of watch ourselves analysis and read a lot of articles. That's our job. But I think that the balance is when you talk about those numbers, it's like you can pretty easily fall in a trap of... There's a lot of niche also on social media. There's a lot of different geos. There's a lot of different market, verticals, users. What you want to do is not be too early, like we did with Augmented Reality, but also not to be too late.

[00:19:15.120] - Francescu Santoni
A good example is for speech. Speech started to really get rising with creators like one or two years ago, auto subtitles and things like that. Nowadays, it starts to spread more widely. That's the moment that you want to bring value to our users. It's still a bit early. People at Mojo will benefit and will be the first small businesses and stuff to have this easy access to this feature. But there will be still not this uncanny valley, that where one year ago, nobody that is not an influencer or a creator or news, will share this kind of content.

[00:19:50.950] - Francescu Santoni
It's not only detecting, it's also deciding what you put in the app. This is like product management, talking to user, A/B test, user testing, and all of this. We can try also with ads, also on ads that we pay to see what works and not.

[00:20:08.620] - Jeff Grang
Especially if the users are really embracing your new features and that they are constantly evolving and renewing your success. Apple and Google, they can offer a lot of new APIs each year at WWDC or at I/O. There's a lot of third-party SDKs out there. Or even Apple could be releasing, and you could be sherlocked maybe by Apple, because they have video editing software, too. Aren't you afraid of all that competition, and by the fact that what you've built in maybe three years can be done now in maybe three months because of these new tools and possibilities? How do you stay ahead of competition?

[00:20:47.430] - Francescu Santoni
Those are two questions. One is more, I think, psychological rather than the actual threat, because I think that's something that we've been told since the day zero of Mojo. I think at the time it was like, "And what about Snap will do the same? And what about Meta and Instagram?" I think, psychologically speaking, it's very important as an entrepreneur to be forward-facing and to be very, very focused on what you can bring new to the table. I think we're still super small to think about mode, defensiveness, and all of these things that make sure people won't copy. Basically, at Mojo, we don't care. We're very forward-looking, and we're just obsessed about bringing new features, innovate, and having fun doing and bringing value to our users.

[00:21:31.580] - Francescu Santoni
Yes, probably a lot of people could try to copy or to sherlock us. From what I see, I think like video on mobile for social network is really, with our angle of democratization, easy to use, it's really hard to achieve. Because if you think into the long tail, really like experience people. CapCut is doing a great job. CapCut, there is a lot of features, but it's hard to use. It's owned by TikTok. Our competitor will be more Canva, which is easy to use, maybe a bit less on the beautiful side, but still a great company. Their product on mobile for videos is simply not at the same level because it's hard to achieve technically and because there's DNA in the company. It's hard when you have a DNA to spread.

[00:22:14.470] - Francescu Santoni
The other one is also our target users because what we have is a lot of free users, of course, like B2C. But we also enable this new generation of entrepreneur, like those small businesses to create content online without the time, without the skills. That is something like big corps, they don't usually target much, like Apple, yet they don't target this. But if they do, it will be more competition and more we will need to get better, and that will be, anyway, something that we strive for. We're not very afraid, I would say, because even the worst-case scenario will push us to do even a better job.

[00:22:50.460] - Olivier Destrebecq
Great. You mentioned being looking forward. Today, whenever you talk technology, looking forward means Gen AI. What has been your reflection on Gen AI, what it means for your business and your app?

[00:23:02.810] - Francescu Santoni
Basically, if you think about creativity, especially in term of pixels, text and pixel, text, LLM, pixel, say, diffusion, our core belief is that most of the pixels for creativity will be generated rather than rendered in a few years, meaning that we really had to pivot internally and change our DNA. Because historically, we were more like a rendering graphics company that switched to an AI company. Those are different jobs. A lot of synergies. Even today when you do AI, there's a lot of computer vision that you have to do more classic, almost algorithm. So not everything is Gen AI. But yes, we decided to have a full pivot to have that internal pivot.

[00:23:42.330] - Francescu Santoni
What does it mean? If you think about AI, it can generate content for you that is really customized for you, more on point and take decision much smarter than just an algorithm like if else. It's more aware of so many components that it can take a great decision. To give you an example of that, things that will not be possible a few years ago, simple things like we add speech to text since a long time, but the quality of the speech to text that we have right now, thanks to AI, is It just will be not something that you could imagine two years ago. If you think about the context and thing that can be decided for the user is amazing.

[00:24:25.990] - Francescu Santoni
Same for the pixels. You can think about generating totally new content, but you can think about also augmenting the content. From the content that you already have, you can add animation, you can customize things, add VFX, add create stories. I've been lucky enough, I think, to see this new mobile trend when 2008, '09, when the App Store was released and made public. I think Gen AI is a bit the same, but even more powerful because the things that you can do, even today, but let's also imagine what you can do in the future, I think just will bring a totally new capacities. I think it's very, very, very aligned with our mission, which is easy to use, democratized, and also something that is, I would say, top-notch video content. Basically making this top-notch or beautiful content, easy to make by everyone, I think that's something that we are very excited about.

[00:25:19.440] - Olivier Destrebecq
Looking forward to see those features come out.

[00:25:21.360] - Jeff Grang
I tested it. I tested the fire logo already. It was amazing.

[00:25:25.470] - Francescu Santoni
Thank you. We're working on crazy things right now and focused on both speech storytelling, but also on what we can do in term of video creation, because I think in motion design, especially, there's a lot of things to do. Thank you.

[00:25:40.820] - Olivier Destrebecq
To bring us back a little bit to today and maybe even to the past, there's one question that I like to ask is whether there's any A/B test that you've done at Mojo that you would have bet your house on, and you would have lost your house?

[00:25:51.680] - Francescu Santoni
A lot.

[00:25:53.340] - Olivier Destrebecq
Good thing you couldn't bet the house.

[00:25:55.060] - Francescu Santoni
No, but I think first we do a lot of A/B test. I think since the launch, it's several hundreds. There's big A/B test, small A/B test. Sometimes you also have not to do A/B test, even if you're wrong, it's because it's strategic. We have also two kinds of A/B test. One is really product-driven and one is technical-driven. Even technical things, we ship with technical A/B test, meaning that we will try our new renderer algorithm on two cohorts to see actually with numbers which one is more performing. In terms of things that were surprising is I remember when we were working on a new UX, totally new, pissed our own experience or a shame or whatever.

[00:26:33.220] - Francescu Santoni
We redesigned our add button and add menu and all of this, and then we released that. It was simply a failure because I think the way our users were thinking was very different that's on. We had to do a lot of iterations to have a winning thing that was clearly better solved, things that we were trying to solve. Also, I think that A/B test should be winning by a large margin, not subtle enough because in that case, if we talk about monetisation, I think the one that was the most surprising was actually it won, but I would have bet against, was reminding people that their trial will end with a notification. In some countries, it was really winning by high margin because culturally, some people were too scared to try the subscription without this reminder.

[00:27:20.810] - Olivier Destrebecq
It's not the first time we hear about that one. Having a reminder is a nice add.

[00:27:23.810] - Francescu Santoni
I hope. I will double-check with the team.

[00:27:27.310] - Jeff Grang
Have you tried the reverse free trial? Because you have a product where the wow effect comes instantly, almost. You could be doing this reverse free trial. Have you tried it?

[00:27:37.200] - Francescu Santoni
What do you mean by reverse free trial?

[00:27:39.140] - Jeff Grang
Reverse free trial. Opening the gates to everyone, instead of having first to accept the free trial. As soon as you download the app, you have a three days free trial with a countdown, et cetera. Then only at the end, you convert. Have you tried that already?

[00:27:54.470] - Francescu Santoni
No, we didn't try. I don't think so.

[00:27:56.970] - Jeff Grang
I'd be curious to have your thoughts if you ever tried this.

[00:28:22.340] - Francescu Santoni
Do you have any people that won with this?

[00:28:26.700] - Jeff Grang
Well, some app tends to be a tendency. Maybe in some geos, geos we were discussing about, like people who are feared to be trapped into subscription that they don't use. It can be a good one or maybe for some new users. But yeah, it's coming. We see more and more of these reverse free trial, especially in products where you have something that is very close to the wow effect.

[00:28:44.180] - Jeff Grang
Well, we've discussed about a lot of things, and I'm sure that some of your competitors are listening and still with us. What should they or what should every app, this is a regular question we ask, what should every app copy from Mojo?

[00:28:55.600] - Jeff Grang
I think there are a lot of different companies with different DNA. I think Mojo is a kind of app and maybe a lot of our competitors too, where the value is in the app itself. I mean that what is very important is to know what is your product leverage, what is your added value, and what is your distribution leverage, I think, where you will grow. What advantage you are, what your strengths and weaknesses and really try to focus on your strengths.

[00:29:17.440] - Jeff Grang
In our case, we focus a lot on the video that we create, or we enable our user to create, so they are really beautiful, but beautiful is subjective, but they are in a way, high quality. Yes, if you are in our case with a creativity app, I think it's very important to make sure that if you can and if it's your DNA, make sure that your output of the app, so the content that people create and share, is very high quality. But sometimes it's not the case. If it's not the case, I think you have really to wonder where can I get this growth, and where should I really put this effort if it's not product-led growth?

[00:29:49.210] - Olivier Destrebecq
We're getting to the end of the questions that we had for you, which is nice because we got some great answers from you and lots of value. But before we part ways, if people want to learn more about Mojo and learn more about you, where can they go?

[00:30:02.210] - Francescu Santoni
Regarding Mojo, you just go in the App Store and you type Mojo. I think it's the easiest way. We're on Android, too, because we talk a lot of iOS, of course, because of monetisation. For myself, it's Francescu, just my first name, and you can find me on Instagram or LinkedIn or Twitter. I'm lucky enough to have a first name which is not common, so it's my username.

[00:30:20.240] - Olivier Destrebecq
You jumped early enough on this bandwagon to snatch them. Nice, nice, nice. Well, thank you very much. It was super awesome to have you on the podcast and be able to ask you all those questions. We got lots of value out of it. So thank you very much.

[00:30:33.400] - Jeff Grang
Thanks.

[00:30:33.580] - Francescu Santoni
Thank you for having me.

[00:30:34.940] - Olivier Destrebecq
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