Pioneering inclusivity in the dating app space: Insights from HER's CEO Robyn Exton

[00:00:01.390] - Olivier Destrebecq
Welcome to the Subscription League, a podcast by Purchasely. Listen to what's working in subscription apps. In each episode, we invite leaders of the app industry who are mastering the subscription model for mobile apps. To learn more about subscriptions, head to subscriptionleague.com. Let's get started.

[00:00:20.230] - Olivier Destrebecq
Welcome to the show. Today, Jeff and I have the pleasure to welcome Robyn Exton, founder of HER, a sapphic dating app on the show. How are you doing today?

[00:00:28.110] - Jeff Grang
I am doing great. I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on the podcast.

[00:00:31.780] - Jeff Grang
Hi, Robin.

[00:00:32.420] - Olivier Destrebecq
You're very welcome. It's a pleasure to have you. As I mentioned earlier, you founded HER, which is a dating app for women in the LGBTQIA community, which today has more than 6 million users. I read that in the early days, you actually learned to code yourself to the first version of the app. Is that true and can you tell us more about that experience?

[00:00:51.810] - Robyn Exton
Yes, it is. We actually have 15 million users. It has been a lot of growth since the last press release, whenever that went out. When I very first started, I just thought about this space, knew I had the idea and wanted to do it and had no idea how to make it happen. Actually at the time, I lived opposite a coding school that had just opened up. It's based in London called Decoded, and I absolutely did not have enough money to pay for it. I emailed them and was like, hey, I'm your neighbor. If by any chance someone calls in sick one day or something happens that you have a free space, please let me know. I'll call in sick and I'll come and spend the day with you guys. A month or so later, that happened, and so I got a free slot there for the day. Then I really loved it, and then I just enrolled on a general assembly. I think I did a three-month front-end course. I didn't actually go into mobile development, just web, so very first versions of the website, I was building and editing the CSS, which I think...

[00:01:52.640] - Robyn Exton
But I think ultimately the value that it really had was when I was then hiring freelances to build the first versions, I had that 10% more confidence understanding what I was asking for and the difference between knowing why I probably need a back-end developer versus a client-side developer and actually understanding what I was asking for.

[00:02:10.190] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yeah, it's an awesome crash course. The one thing that this little story has tell me about you is that you actually had the gut to call the school and tell them, I can't pay, but if you have a free slot, I'll show up, and they'd say, yes, it's awesome.

[00:02:22.740] - Robyn Exton
Yeah. I've done the most hustly stuff in the history, I think back to some of the things I've done. Still, even nowadays, I think that's definitely in my blood. I tried to put it in the whole team and company's blood, almost the idea of anything is possible to do it, it just requires grit or effort and probably letting go of your ego a lot of times. The amount of favors I've asked, freebies I've asked for, things for help, support, anything.

[00:02:46.660] - Olivier Destrebecq
In that same article where I got the 6 million users, so clearly it's a dated press release, as you said, they talked about your early non-scalable strategies for user acquisition. Can you tell us what that was?

[00:02:59.170] - Robyn Exton
That was all very true. I didn't know anything about tech or startups, and maybe the world of growth was different then as well. But anyway, I came from a branding agency, and so all of my ideas were what I knew from there. Even the very first thing before I even had an app, I went out at Pride, and I went out to some different lesbian club nights, and I would take a camera, like an SLR, and take photos of people. I would then print a business card that had the website where I was going to post them the next day, and then there was an email collect before people got there. It was my very first start off building lists, and I wasn't a photographer but made it look like I was and was like, yeah, come and get these professional photos the next day on this website. I then used to spend... When I had the first version, I spent a lot of time in nightclubs and bars. When I was at university, I used to be a tequila girl, and so I think I obviously got the idea from there.

[00:03:52.380] - Robyn Exton
But I would just go to the bar and negotiate with them a better price for a bottle of tequila in Sambuca. Then I would give people a shot if they would download the app, and then I would watch them start it in front of me. I went to the weirdest places all across London because I wanted to make sure I went to different types of club nights that I wasn't just going to the ones that I knew of that would be people who were just like me. Then I used to go to Pride. I can remember this one year, I went and the portaloos are really gross at Pride. For the women's portaloos, there's always massive lines and they're disgusting inside, there's no toilet paper. I made these flyers for the app and then I stapled toilet paper to them and then would go flyer to everyone who was in line for the porta-pottys at Pride Festival. At the time, I had no money and I had as much time as I could physically give to it, and so I would just keep thinking up these ideas of what could I do to get more people using the app?

[00:04:43.430] - Olivier Destrebecq
You said you started over 10 years ago and you used those early acquisition strategies, which are awesome. What did the competitive landscape at the time look like, and how did HER differentiate itself from the competition?

[00:04:55.930] - Robyn Exton
It's crazy to look back at it now because it's in recent memory and you're like, oh, my God, everything has changed so dramatically. At the time, Grindr had just exploded and I think in the UK, it had just featured on Top Gear and so everyone was like, oh, my God, what is this? Everyone forgets that it really was the start of the mobile economy. Grindr really set so many precedents. They really established the marketplace because it was providing real value on mobile, which none of that... Match.com was making mobile wrappers and putting that around their websites and trying to make it to an app. It was a terrible experience, but Grindr was doing something really valuable and people were obsessed with it. Tinder had just started in the US. It was at the time when they had been doing the big college tour and roll out, and there was this hype and excitement that was starting. But that was really it at the time. Everyone, especially in the UK, the US has always been ahead of dating in so many ways. But the UK, it was definitely still web dating was the norm.

[00:05:54.620] - Robyn Exton
Even there was this website, it was called MySingleFriend, was the one that young people would use. Then Match, eharmony, those were the places that people thought. It was still also the mentality was this stranger danger, meeting someone online is dodgy and desperate and have this very different cultural perception.

[00:06:12.980] - Olivier Destrebecq
Don't tell your parents you're dating online, otherwise, they're going to think you're crazy.

[00:06:16.000] - Robyn Exton
Exactly. Then for our space, for queer women, it was just completely vacant and absent. Within the gay space, there was... Gaydar was the main web dating experience for men. Then they had made GaydarGirls. It was exactly the same platform, but it was lime green instead of whatever the gay guy one was. But all the fields were the same, all the profile properties were the same. It was clearly completely not for women, and it was just filled with tons of profiles of people who would message. It was creepy weird, it was strange attention. It was a lot of cis guys who were like, you've just not met the right guy yet. There was no valuable service.

[00:06:55.990] - Jeff Grang
Today, how do you differentiate with a competitive landscape that must have changed quite a lot in the last 10 years.

[00:07:01.770] - Robyn Exton
Yeah. It's gone through waves of changes even. I would say, honestly, up until about three years ago, no one cared that much about our space still, which was great for the business because it gave us a really big opportunity to grow and take it, which is fantastic. Now, the past three years, the way Gen Z has changed, the larger hetero mainstream platforms are suddenly realizing they really have to do something that speaks to LGBTQ audiences. Obviously in my mind, it's very late to the game, like embarrassingly late for them, but they are very invested in how sexually fluid and how people see their gender differently in these younger age groups.

[00:07:42.360] - Robyn Exton
We have to provide value in a different way. Before, we just had the audience, and that was the value. We had this large queer, sapphic audience. Now, we really do have to provide better value in the product experience because those guys have 200 engineer teams or whatever, and they're doing a billion in revenue a year. It's a real like if there was a women's version of David and Goliath, and I could use that, I'd say that. But so for us, the way we think about it is, we want to make the gayest platform that we can and speak to the parts of what it means to be a queer woman or a queer person, because we know that those mainstream platforms, they're not going to put that stuff on profiles because they can't, because 50% of their user base is cis men, and 80% of their payer base is cis men.

[00:08:29.120] - Robyn Exton
They're not going to putting on their profiles what we put on our profiles and the features that we build that allow sapphic people to express their identity and celebrate and showcase their queerness and lean into the things that we actually love. We've got this new feature coming out in June. One of our main different features is pride pins, and it speaks to all the nuances of queer culture and queer community, and we've got this new collection coming out in June, which is called sapphic energies. It's the gay energy that someone has if you meet them, and it's a very like, if you know, you know in the community. It's like that's the stuff that the straight platforms are not going to do because number one, they don't get it. They're not thinking about it. They're not putting resources to it.

[00:09:10.160] - Robyn Exton
Number two, they can't put it because a straight dude is going to be like, what's a Hey Mama energy? Whereas queer people are like, oh, my God, I know that girl. I've met her, I know what she's going to be like.

[00:09:20.080] - Jeff Grang
But it looks like you found your niche, which is quite not a niche because these big apps are considering moving to it and are going into the market. Can you size it?

[00:09:29.840] - Robyn Exton
I remember when I first started, and I was trying to raise investment and all the stuff that I found online said it was 3% of women. I was like, this is not correct, I know there's more. When I did first start, I think the more realistic estimates were 10% to 15% of the market would be LGBTQ. Now with Gen Z, it's wild the different numbers. I think the way before it used to be, are you lesbian? Are you bi? That was it. Now what's different about Gen Z is, they just see themselves as not straight. They're like, I don't know which one of these labels or categories I fit under, but fewer than 50% identify as straight. That means that more than 50 % are potential customers for us within Gen Z demographic and below. We see that as well across the way they represent their gender is very different. The size is different based on the age. We still have at millennials, it's grown hugely. Even with millennials, the number of people who identify as bisexual and pansexual, the largest growing categories. Then for the boomers, not going as much, people know where they are and where they sit.

[00:10:33.630] - Jeff Grang
If you go beyond just the users and maybe have a look at the value of each user, you were saying just before that 80% of the subscribers were men in a typical dating app like Tinder. Would you say that your users are more likely to subscribe to pay for these apps, or they are just trying to get everything for free? What are the different subscription or spending behaviors that you observe in your community of users?

[00:10:59.250] - Robyn Exton
I don't know that for a fact about the other platforms, it's my guesstimate. But in the same way, I actually don't know deeply how our conversion rate is different to those other platforms. We're friends with some of the people at the gay guy dating apps. I think things that we know that are different; number one, we have to build different features for people to convert on, the ones that men will pay for. Men are often... As I understand from chatting to friends in the industry, men are looking for immediacy and urgency and immediate results on what they're doing, and women are looking for control and are looking for access, and so the types of features that we bought, so you'll see a lot on Tinder and straight platforms, they're like the boost feature, like give me more attention. That's not something that women pay for. That's not something that runs through their minds of what they want. They want to curate more and control and refine access. We just have to think about features in different ways. I think that one thing that's different about our users, there's two core use cases.

[00:11:59.990] - Robyn Exton
One is our users generally are looking for a committed relationship. Even if that's not their core behavior, that's their underneath desire. That might be a relationship that... It's not that they're necessarily looking for marriage or the soulmate, but they are looking for intimacy, and they're looking for intentionality in those relationships. I think that if you look at gay men, that's normally not the case. They're looking for something often casual, and then they'll be back on the platform, whereas ours are taking longer to pursue view who they're looking for, and then they are looking to come off the app and commit with that person. That's our main use case. There's then this second use case, which I think has grown a lot as the dating app environment has now become so big. There's a lot of almost socializing that people do, and not in the traditional sense that you think about it. There's a satisfaction and an appeasement of loneliness that people get on dating apps, and that's having a small connection and having a chat with someone and building almost a light friendship with that person. They may not ever meet up in real life.

[00:13:04.150] - Robyn Exton
It may just be someone that they chat with for three or four weeks. It may be someone that they move on to WhatsApp, and then they stay in touch for a couple of years, because especially for our community, they do long distance a lot. It may be someone, they're like, oh, great, if we're in the same time, we'll meet up together. Those types of behaviors, I think on the main hetero apps, you will definitely get people looking for intentional, committed relationships. But this friendship side and the connection is definitely greater amongst sapphics. We have 40% of our users are looking for a friendship as well as looking for something romantic. I think most straight connections, people aren't looking to stay friends with that person after they've been on the date. Once it's done, they're out. Whereas ours, they actually genuinely value knowing someone else in the community and building a relationship with that person.

[00:13:52.240] - Olivier Destrebecq
It's fascinating to hear all those differences between those two markets and how clearly you've researched your niche very well. We're curious to see how does even extend it to user acquisition? I'm sure over the last 10 years, you've tried some different stuff. I'm curious how you acquire users today and over the last 10 years, how has that been?

[00:14:10.570] - Robyn Exton
Our very first acquisition channel was Tumblr. For us, it's like we're on this very targeted audience. We are a smaller company. We're going to have smaller budgets than the big guys. We have to be as focused as possible on the channels that will be disproportionately more popular with the sapphic audience. Tumblr was the one that worked really well for us, and it was basically an affiliate program that we ran with Tumblr accounts. I think we were paying a dollar per install, and it was a really great channel for us for a couple of years, at least. Then we started moving spend over to Meta as it was at the time. Still in the back of my head, I'm like, oh, I remember when it was like $150 per install.

[00:14:49.910] - Olivier Destrebecq
What's the cost today?

[00:14:51.470] - Robyn Exton
Oh, God, what do we paid? It depends on the channel. So they're more bottom of funnel stuff. I think we're spending around $2 on some of those, but it's high intentionality. Then the more awareness-building ones, we're somewhere closer to $6 and $7 for an install.

[00:15:06.030] - Jeff Grang
Mostly targeting the US?

[00:15:07.490] - Robyn Exton
We mostly spend in the US. Our main markets are US, UK, France, Germany, Canada, and Australia that we focus our acquisition and marketing on. Thailand is actually our second-biggest market. It was pretty wild. We had this TikTok that went viral three years ago, and we got 300,000 users in the space of three days. It was this huge explosion and a really big chunk of them retained, so it's now just a pretty active running market. But we focus all of our efforts on those six markets. But generally, most budgets go to the US. We'll almost use the other international markets for testing a new channel and being able to isolate how effective it is.

[00:15:48.110] - Jeff Grang
Speaking of testing, you look like to be a real learning organization and be willing to test a lot of things beyond your boundaries, as you were saying in introduction. Is there any A/B test that really have surprised you in the past 10 years?

[00:16:02.770] - Robyn Exton
It's always funny because sometimes once you run them, you're like, oh, that's not surprising. Of course, that makes sense. At the time, you're really convinced this thing is going to work, then the results come out and you're like, okay, fine.

[00:16:11.020] - Olivier Destrebecq
We'll ask for your honesty there.

[00:16:13.880] - Robyn Exton
Yeah. I think once... I mean, the things that do still surprise me, this one pisses me off because most other people it works for, but paywall and onboarding does not work for us. It doesn't do anything positive for conversion. Actually, I think we almost a slight more churn from our users, and I know so many other products and services are like, this is a great moment for conversion. Then we did even one recently. We use free trials a lot that comes based on the user journey. We tested a different paywall that listed the benefits. We have our current paywall is more emotive, it's lots of girls kissing. That's the outcome that everyone's here for, one copy line. We did a version that was really clear. It was still emotive, it talked about the value of each feature. It was much clearer in what people were going to get from it, and did not perform as well. Then I think the other one that we did, we spent all of last quarter thinking a lot about onboarding. We can put as many screens as we want in onboarding beyond certain types.

[00:17:16.710] - Robyn Exton
We can put as many screens of profile creation elements, ask them as many questions as they want, ask them to add anything to their profile, and they will keep going through all of it. Put in a paywall, not good. Put in an integration. We have features where you can add your Spotify account to your profile. You can add Instagram content. Anything is that slows down in onboarding, but any other type of question about who you are, what you're here for, what you're looking for, they'll fill out all of it.

[00:17:44.280] - Jeff Grang
Yeah. [inaudible 00:17:45] if you remember, we had a fitness coach founders on the podcast, I think it was the first season. I think they had 40 steps on their onboarding, asking questions on what do you do, why do you want to do sports? The more they add, the bigger the stickiness within the app. I think it's maybe something related to the personalization group that you have in the product.

[00:18:06.840] - Olivier Destrebecq
People talking about themselves.

[00:18:08.490] - Robyn Exton
Yeah, they do. But I think particularly our users, I think that women, especially sapphic women love therapy. We love learning about relationships and connection, we want to express all parts of ourselves. Sorry, my cat's doing.

[00:18:21.900] - Olivier Destrebecq
It's awesome. As long as it doesn't fall down.

[00:18:25.380] - Robyn Exton
Yeah, she probably will. They love adding all these things. They just care so much about what makes compatibility, what makes a good relationship. I think we've also found we do a lot of surveys. Our users love a survey. When we put something out, sometimes we do brand partnerships or do research, people want to understand our community, and they just love filling out a survey. I think that's why they're happy to complete stuff, happy to express. That's why I think we can push that a lot more in onboarding and profile creation.

[00:18:52.690] - Olivier Destrebecq
Awesome. You just mentioned partnership. I know you've done a partnership with Paramount around Mean Girl. Can you tell us a little bit about it and what the results were for you?

[00:19:01.790] - Robyn Exton
Yeah. We do really cool brand partnerships. I really enjoy the content that comes with them from the bigger ones that we really work with the brand managers, so Mean Girls was an awesome one. I think it works absolutely best when you've got a product that genuinely our community are excited about and are interested in. That can come from a brand that's authentically thought about what the queer community might enjoy about this product, or it just happens to be like, hey, it's something that our users are going to be really drawn to. Then we try to do these custom partnerships that make the most of that affiliation. With Mean Girls, we did... So with our pride pins that we have on profiles that express a lot of sapphic culture, we took out what we thought were the gayest quotes from the movies and then made a pride pin custom to the movie that people could then add to their profile during the build up to the movie. One of them is still our fourth most used pin, which I can't remember exactly what it was, but we saw that a few weeks ago, it surprised me.

[00:19:56.820] - Robyn Exton
Then we did this big custom takeover of the app, so one of the classic brands from the movies is on Wednesdays, we wear pink. On the launch day, on Wednesday, we turned the whole app pink, all the background, added these pins, did custom DMs. And it just feels interesting to our users, it's relevant content. I think a lot of the partnerships that we work with feel like that. My ultimate goal is that we authentically connect a brand with our audience because I think there's a lot of fear after what happened last year with Bud Light and I think a lot of brands don't know how to approach queer people because they don't do it authentically often. They do it as a box-ticking exercise. It's pride, I guess we better do some gay advertising. People see through it, and now it's such a big audience. People want to be treated as an authentic demographic that brands care about and that they're prioritizing. The best one, [inaudible 00:20:49], when you actually get someone who really is trying to do that. I think the spaces where it seems most obvious it will come in is trust and safety.

[00:21:25.150] - Robyn Exton
As you say, whether it's profile generation and then profile detection, but there's also so operational value that we can have in the amount of content that we're reviewing and auditing. We can process it and get smarter and smarter at how we process it and ultimately hopefully keep users safer inside of the platform. I think that, again, exactly as you say, this idea of helping users through their dating journey. I think the number one thing, honestly, that I think about it is for our users, the main thing they crave in our platform is authenticity. They want to meet authentic people, and they want to connect authentically. AI is actually in pretty stark conflict with that. If they feel that they are talking to someone who did not authentically create their profile, who didn't authentically express who they are, it really switches them off from wanting to connect with that person. I think that's also the stage where humans are with AI. There's a huge lack of trust, a huge lack of awareness. I think that will probably change in itself over the next couple of years. But where they are now, they really don't want people to have any AI by interruption with their experience.

[00:22:32.190] - Robyn Exton
I think that anything that we do experiment with has to be almost on a brand level. It's like HER can be using it to help you or can be using it to being able to chat with the HER AI, and we'll see if Scarlett Johansson will work with us, and we can genuinely use her voice rather than appropriate it. But being able to ask questions and be like, what am I looking for? Do I have any bad swiping behaviors? Where do I keep making a mistake? But I think where it does get into risky territory with users is if you're like, how should I reply to this message? If they feel it's like an autocomplete or an autofill, if a user sniffs that they're chatting with an AI, it completely breaks the connection that happens between two people. I think it has to be approached really cautiously and really carefully for people to still have trust in the other humans that they're meeting.

[00:23:20.570] - Jeff Grang
Will you block copy pasting on the messaging text field?

[00:23:23.360] - Robyn Exton
Possibly if we do that... I mean, this is like people are using it anyway to some extent. They're going to be going to chat with you and asking it questions and then pasting it through. But I think what we as a brand, for people to still trust our environment, we can't facilitate it. We can't be seen to like supporting it. Or if we do, the one thing we've said is if we go into it, it just has to be labeled exceptionally clearly. It's not trying to pass off AI behavior as your own, it's like, hey, I use this to help me with this. Then it's the implications of that on you guys.

[00:23:56.610] - Olivier Destrebecq
We're still talking a bit about the future, actually, but we've looked a lot. I'm curious to keep looking forward. Where do you see the dating niche, your dating niche going? Where's it going? How's it changing?

[00:24:09.190] - Robyn Exton
It's going bigger. It's going up, baby.

[00:24:11.820] - Olivier Destrebecq
Perfect.

[00:24:13.090] - Robyn Exton
Which is actually amazing. I remember when I was, again, just pitching it in the early days, and I was like, everyone else was like, this is a massively growing market, and it felt like I couldn't say it, but I felt like it was, mainly because of my experience with my friends and the amount of my women friends who were exploring their sexuality. Now we have so many numbers behind it for this younger generation. They really are so much of a bigger, growing market. I think that it's interesting because they're going to age up, they're going to age through, and so their behaviors will be interesting to track as they get older, because at the moment, it's the volume of our user base. 60% of our users are 18 to 24, so that's the volume of activity and engagement, but they convert at a lower rate. There's almost equal volume of subscribers for millennials to Gen Z, but we just have fewer millennials on the platform than we have of Gen Zers. But as those people age through, and they all become paying users, it's obviously really exciting opportunity for the business.

[00:25:10.290] - Robyn Exton
Then we'll have the next cohort of people that will come through, and that will be even bigger until it's like 80% of the market. But I think also we're an international business, and I think it's really interesting to watch those trends expand into different markets. We've still got, you look at South America, it's still really different how people see their sexuality. A lot of those countries have a very strong religious structure to them, and so coming out is very different. There's a lot of equality progression that's going to happen globally across the world that will also expand our market in those countries as well.

[00:25:42.360] - Olivier Destrebecq
It's probably a big challenge, actually, for you guys because each market is... I want to use the term maturity, but that's probably the wrong term. But every country is at a different point in their voyage through that journey, and so how do you guys deal with that difference between countries and culture?

[00:25:55.290] - Robyn Exton
Yeah, it's at a different point and then so much of it is actually also tied to women's rights. The amount of autonomy and independence that women have in our double-women market has a really big impact on the social dynamics. For example, in some Asian markets for a long time, you would only have a masculine and a feminine person in a relationship because it was almost the belief that there had to be that masculine energy for any couple to get by, which as women's rights progress, it's like, oh, we actually can have two femmes together because women have salaries and autonomy, and we can build our lives together without this perception of needing to have that masculine energy coming into the couple. In any internationalization, we have someone in market. The ones that we are localized in is France, Germany, Spain, Japan, and then Thailand. We have boots on the ground there because even within our community, the way language changes, we have to be really on top of it. Something can go, you think about the word queer. For such a long time, it was a slur word, and it was used against the queer community.

[00:26:58.990] - Robyn Exton
Then it gets reclaimed and now it's our main umbrella term that we use to describe ourselves. As language goes through those changes, we want to be able to reflect that authentically with our users in that market. I think just as we become a bigger business, and we focus on different markets, we would then have someone in each one of those to approach it authentically.

[00:27:17.080] - Olivier Destrebecq
The US market has not necessarily been super easy either because the LGBTQ community has been in the middle of a lot of political conversations in the US. How has that affected you guys?

[00:27:28.320] - Robyn Exton
I think it's going to be for the next a couple of years, at least as we go through these elections. I think when I first started... When I moved to the US, it was 2015, we just got equal marriage, it felt like everything's just going up. This is great. Then obviously with the Trump administration, it's just been such a pullback on rights, particularly for trans people and the way trans people are weaponized in this media landscape by politicians to build a furore around something that is ultimately just about individuals trying to get access to healthcare and being able to have the same legal rights. They love to stir up this polarizing thing, and it wins them points in the media, and it loses healthcare and access and rights for trans people whose lives are getting more and more risky and dangerous to live in. It's so upsetting. We've actually done a lot of work. We're really clear as a platform that we're a place where all trans people are loved and welcome. Within our community, there's this subset that's known as TERFs, which is trans exclusion visionary radical feminists, and they don't believe that trans women should be almost protected under the arm of feminism.

[00:28:36.050] - Robyn Exton
We've just taken such a proactive stance of not having any TERFs inside of our platform, making it exceptionally clear you cannot discriminate against trans people in this space. If you do, you're just not welcome here. I think our role is as much as we can education, there's still education that has to happen within the queer community to understand and accept what it means to have different identities, but then make our space as safe as possible. So people know if you are within in the LGBTQ+ space. This is a place where you will not be treated poorly and discriminated against, and you've got someone that's got your back in our place where you're here.

[00:29:07.840] - Jeff Grang
In the last 30 minutes, we explored a lot of things about your app, how you got there, and even about society with this last question, which is not easy to follow with another question. I'd like to end up with a question that we often ask. I'm an app developer, what should I copy from HER?

[00:29:23.700] - Robyn Exton
You should copy our gender labels. You should copy our sexuality options. I think so many app have this gender flag on their profiles. We're super rich. We have a huge volume of gender identities because we want all of our community to be able to express. But you can look in our app, you can see the top six that we use, and you just use those in your app. It's a way to make your users feel seen and be able to express their identity and know that you are thoughtful of someone who is in the LGBTQ+ community.

[00:29:52.450] - Robyn Exton
That's most probably the best and most actionable answer we had so far. I'll leave you a bad discussion. Thanks a lot, Robyn.

[00:29:59.440] - Olivier Destrebecq
I'll make one request as a software developer. Can you open source your gender solution so that other app can use it?

[00:30:07.390] - Robyn Exton
Yeah, that's a great idea.

[00:30:08.270] - Olivier Destrebecq
That's a good one. There you go.

[00:30:09.660] - Robyn Exton
I'm going to tell the team. Yeah, I love that.

[00:30:11.950] - Olivier Destrebecq
On that last agreement, I'd like to say thank you very much.

[00:30:15.500] - Jeff Grang
Thanks, Robyn.

[00:30:16.410] - Olivier Destrebecq
It was a pleasure to have you. But actually, before I thank you even more, if people want to learn more about HER and about yourself, where can they go to learn more?

[00:30:24.390] - Robyn Exton
We are App Store and Play Store. It's HER. Search lesbian dating, we'll be there. And then our website is weareher.com. Then on all socials, it's HER Social app.

[00:30:35.860] - Olivier Destrebecq
Awesome. Well, again, thank you very much. It was a pleasure to have you on the podcast. You gave us some great insights. We even, as Jeff said, had a chance to do some societal question, which was awesome. Thank you very much.

[00:30:46.060] - Jeff Grang
Thanks, Robyn.

[00:30:46.810] - Robyn Exton
Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:30:48.150] - Olivier Destrebecq
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