We are steering down the barrel of recession, but consumers’ appetite for subscriptions will likely continue to develop, and an increasing number of subscription businesses will share the pleasure.
- Subscriptions account for 82% of revenue regenerated on average by non-gaming apps.
- In the U.S., the annual spending on top subscription apps in the Apple App Store increased by ⅓ over a year, reaching 6 billion in 2021. Revenues on Google Play also rose a massive 78% to reach 2.5 billion the same year.
What’s driving the rise of Subscription models?
- For consumers, it promises lower barriers to entry, convenience to purchase, and access to novel and curated content.
- For app businesses, it promises monetization and security.
Despite the proven benefits, there are still many challenges that apps struggle with such as the notorious “subscription fatigue.”
Listen to the full episode to learn about the state of the subscription economy, and success strategy recommendations by Peggy Anne Salz, a leading mobile marketer, and the chief analyst and founder of MobileGroove.
For noteworthy quotes and key takeaways from the episode, read the article -
Episode Topics at a Glance
- The state of the Subscription Economy
- Dealing with Subscription fatigue
- Benefits of Subscriptions
- How Subscription Apps can rise above challenges
- Example of Spotify
More about Peggy Anne Salz
As the chief analyst and founder of MobileGroove — a top 50 ranked destination providing analysis, custom research, and strategic content marketing to the global mobile industry, and mentoring and consulting to tech startups — Peggy Anne Salz is recognized as one of the leading experts shaping the mobile world.
Peggy is also a nine-time author, a frequent Forbes contributor and guest contributor for a variety of leading media outlets — including Harvard Business Review — where she shares her insights on mobile marketing, mobile apps, customer engagement, and business innovation.
Peggy produces podcasts, videos, webinars, and blogs to equip mobile marketers with best practices and growth strategies to power campaigns, brand storytelling, and user engagement. She is also the Chief Content Officer of MMA Germany.
Peggy Anne Salz’s Links
- Peggy’s Linkedin Profile
- Peggy’s Twitter
- Peggy’s YouTube Channel
- Mobile Presence Podcast
- Peggy’s Author page on Forbes
- Other social media and content
- MMA Germany
00:22 Peggy Ann introduction
01:11 Potential upcoming subscription trends
02:12 Key points about the subscription economy
05:20 Good examples of subscription apps
07:51 How to connect with your customers
10:42 Dealing with subscription fatigue
13:24 What are psychographics?
17:40 What's the power behind value graphics?
20:10 Why are subscriptions so successful?
22:00 Benefits to subscription apps
26:24 Must-haves for subscriptions
28:52 Your brand and retaining subscribers
32:55 Peggy's book recommendations
34:23 Peggy's upcoming book
Hey, Nicolas, how are you doing today?
[00:00:23.760] - Nicolas Tissier
I'm fine, thank you. What about you Olivier?
[00:00:27.000] - Olivier Destrebecq
I'm doing good. I actually just came back from vacation, so I'm all ready to get started again. Today we have Peggy Anne Salz, who is Chief Analyst and Founder at mobilegroove.com.
[00:00:37.390] - Olivier Destrebecq
She's providing analysis, custom research, and strategic content marketing to the global mobile industry. She also provides mentoring and consulting to tech startups. And best of all, she's also host of several podcasts and video shows focused on mobile marketing and growth.
[00:00:51.090] - Olivier Destrebecq
She also writes for Forbes, Pocket Gamer and other outlets. I know she'll have plenty to share with us today. Maybe even some podcasting tips, we'll see. So Peggy, how are you doing today? And welcome to the show.
[00:01:01.700] - Peggy Anne Salz
I'm doing great, thanks. It's the beginning of the week, that's always a plus. High energy.
[00:01:07.760] - Olivier Destrebecq
[00:01:07.890] - Peggy Anne Salz
Moving into a new month, so it's all good.
[00:01:10.900] - Olivier Destrebecq
Perfect. So to jump right into the interview, we're somewhat in an unpredictable economic period right now. I'm curious to hear what are your subscription trends that you see coming down the line?
[00:01:23.040] - Peggy Anne Salz
Well, at one level, yes, I know we are staring down the barrel of a recession, and we'll get to that. But on the other hand, our appetite for subscription apps is something that has developed over time. It's a habit we are not going to be breaking anytime soon.
[00:01:40.700] - Peggy Anne Salz
I mean, if you look at just streaming apps, yes, there will be streaming wars. But at the end of the day, we have this habit, we have this behaviour of needing music, entertainment. First, it was to maybe brighten up our days in lockdown, and now it's just part of our routine.
[00:01:58.080] - Peggy Anne Salz
Wellness, I mean, it's something that we're going to continue and even be more focused on. So yes, at one level, we're going to be making some choices about our subscription apps, but at the other end, we are not really going to be changing our behaviour.
[00:02:12.160] - Olivier Destrebecq
So Liftoff published a report recently on the state of app marketing for subscription apps. And while you may not have written it, I'm sure you have read it. What are some of the key points you share with people asking you about the subscription economy?
[00:02:23.500] - Peggy Anne Salz
The report is interesting because it looks at the overall subscription economy. It looks at the overall dynamics. When you read into it, and you understand that, for example, subscriptions account for 82% of revenue generated on average for non-gaming apps, 36% for gaming apps. Well, there's a little bit of adjustment needs to happen there, obviously. But overall, the message is that there is spend, not just time, but also money on subscription apps.
[00:02:53.460] - Peggy Anne Salz
We have numbers like Statista, six billion in 2021, increases of over a third over the previous year. Revenues on Google Play also rising a massive 78% to reach 2.5 billion. So what we have in that report is we see the dynamics of growth.
[00:03:12.140] - Peggy Anne Salz
Now, the dynamics of conversion, 2.1% end up subscribing within 30 days. Maybe that's another story there, which is that it's not about the subscription apps themselves, it could be about the marketing or the product. So really, the message there is that marketers have an opportunity, they just need to up their game.
[00:03:32.280] - Olivier Destrebecq
That's really great. So how do you think marketers need to up their game?
[00:03:35.910] - Peggy Anne Salz
Well, the good news is, it's all within reach. The good news is it's nothing entirely new and different. It's not a massive new playbook.
[00:03:45.590] - Peggy Anne Salz
I will quote from the press release from the Liftoff report, which was also written in collaboration with AppsFlyer. Shani Rosenfelder, head of content and mobile insights there had a press release. Now, I don't just quote a press release because it's a press release, I'm into content. When something nails it, that is a go in my book.
[00:04:04.370] - Peggy Anne Salz
I just want to read the quote to you because I think it says exactly what marketers need to be doing. And he says, subscription apps thrive when providing continuous value and content and building personal relationships with their users. Moreover, he adds, and this is it, this is the kicker, if an app cannot deliver on its promise to provide continuous value and content, the subscription model will not work. That's telling marketers to do exactly that. Prove their value proposition and also continually refresh that content, always answering that question, why do I need this app now? Why do I need to continue to subscribe to this app? What does this app offer me?
[00:04:42.320] - Peggy Anne Salz
I think if you nail that, and that's not easy, but it is possible. That's the art and science of marketing, ad creatives and strategy and product. Product is the new marketing. But the good news is it is possible.
[00:04:56.960] - Peggy Anne Salz
So even in a market which is going to be very crowded, very noisy, very competitive, fiercely competitive, the point is if you move back to your value proposition and communicate that and repeatedly communicate that on the right channels at the right time, very personal, hyper-personal even, then I believe that you have a great chance for success.
[00:05:20.960] - Olivier Destrebecq
Have you seen great examples of that communication around the value proposition that maybe you can showcase? Do you have anything on top of your head that you can think of?
[00:05:29.260] - Peggy Anne Salz
Let me think because I'm a little bit different in what I consume in subscription apps because I am 100% media. I love music. My favorite subscription app, and you will never get it away from me, you have to take it out of my cold, pry it out of my cold fingers will be Spotify.
[00:05:48.300] - Peggy Anne Salz
What they're getting right is they are just finding more ways to get me interested in my listening habits. It's like, "Hey, did you realize that this was the first song that you liked this year?" It's like, "Oh, really? It's almost like a trivia. Oh, that's very interesting. Do I like that?" And then you go back and you look and says, "Do you want more?"
[00:06:05.590] - Peggy Anne Salz
So what I'm seeing is—maybe that's just one example, obviously, but that's the one I'm using all the time, that's the one I go to all the time. When I'm working, I have Spotify in the background. I have music in the background all the time I'm working, since as you said yourself, I produce a lot of content. I'm working a lot means I'm listening to a lot of music.
[00:06:24.080] - Peggy Anne Salz
What I like is that it's more a companion now than it was before. It's gone from being a service, a subscription service to being a companion. I think that's very smart because then you're inserting yourself and your proposition in my day in a different way. So it's not just like suggesting songs because they're not always getting that right anyway. We won't go down that road, recommendation engines need some work. But you are coming from a different angle, which is almost along the lines of, "Hey, I'm here. I have some fresh ideas I want to share, check it out."
[00:07:00.760] - Peggy Anne Salz
So the call to action isn't monetary or generalised. It's feeling more like, "Hey, this is something you would genuinely appreciate." And to say that means that you're fairly confident, you know and understand me. So, yeah, it is getting my attention there.
[00:07:17.210] - Peggy Anne Salz
So what could marketers do based on that? Probably think of different ways to communicate that seems to be more aligned with the flow of my day and my journey. Of course, that would come back to personalisation and understanding your users. But I think that would be an interesting way to get people's attention, do something a little bit unexpected. A little serendipity never hurt, Olivier.
[00:07:41.030] - Olivier Destrebecq
Definitely not. I like the example you gave of those go look at songs that you've liked in the past and really showing that it's about you at the end of the day. I definitely see your point there.
[00:07:51.720] - Nicolas Tissier
Yeah. I would add in that to do that, you need to talk to your users. As a marketer as much as a product manager, if you want to put your product and the value you bring into their daily routine, then you must know it. You must speak with them and have some customer conversation to actually really deeply understand how they behave, what are the expectations and so on.
[00:08:17.240] - Peggy Anne Salz
It's interesting you bring that up, Nicholas, for a moment, because that's another thing I'm hearing very often. I speak with a lot of marketers for my work and for my other interviews. It's really going back to that. It's really about asking. You have a number of marketers now saying we're going to rely on surveys. We're going to find ways to ask questions along the way just to make that customer connection because they believe that will turn into conversion as well.
[00:08:43.190] - Peggy Anne Salz
So to your point, yes, it is more about connecting with customers than ever before, but doing it in ways that are not going to be annoying. That also brings back context, those data-driven scenarios that allow you to understand, when do I speak with my customers? What tone? What tonality? What ways do I do that?
[00:09:03.880] - Peggy Anne Salz
But to your point, yeah, it is about that now. So we've gone full circle. We're back to speaking to our customers and understanding them.
[00:09:11.100] - Nicolas Tissier
Yeah, the more I speak with marketers, what I find really striking is that the marketing and the product jobs, they look more or less the same. The more we go, the more you need to speak with the users, the more you need to have a framework, a methodology, you make some assumptions and so on. And this is really interesting, I guess.
[00:09:29.940] - Peggy Anne Salz
It's not just interesting, it's where the connect... At that intersection, that's where you will find your business success and your profits. But on top of that, it's also challenging because in the best-case scenario, what you're going to be finding out in marketing is going to improve the product and the other way around as well.
[00:09:46.600] - Peggy Anne Salz
So watching that journey, where do people drop off? Where do they love it? Where do they hate it? What happens? What stages? That feeds into marketing to say, "Hey, everyone is really doing this in the product so let's emphasize that in the marketing." And the same with marketing saying, "Hey, you know, we emphasise this feature and this is really working really well. Why don't you expand on that? Why don't we do something? Why don't we come up with messaging about any refresh on that feature or functionality?"
[00:10:14.320] - Peggy Anne Salz
So you sort of between the two of them. In that intersection, that's where you find the opportunity. Of course, it's also challenging, but I have to say marketers are getting really good at teamwork. They are bringing this together where they have marketing, engineering, product, everybody literally on the same page.
[00:10:33.140] - Peggy Anne Salz
Got a way to go, but it's really impressive and also very encouraging to see the progress so far. And even people talking about that kind of teamwork.
[00:10:42.240] - Nicolas Tissier
I'm curious, Peggy Anne, do you have any interesting perspective to share on subscription fatigue? To what extent do you consider that all subscriptions are competing with one another?
[00:10:54.780] - Peggy Anne Salz
Well, subscription fatigue is there. There's also a level of, what am I going to pay for? But that's not radically new or different. That happens in all verticals with all types of apps, with physical products. It's the nature of commerce. It is at the core of that.
[00:11:13.200] - Peggy Anne Salz
When do you get tired of something? When do you think it's worth paying for, or when don't you? Yes, subscriptions are competing with one another for that scarce resource, our attention. So our mind share, our wallet share, heart share, if you want to go that far too, because we have to care about what we do so the companies that we do business with, the companies that we even listen to in the first place, they had to have struck a chord elsewhere, usually.
[00:11:41.320] - Peggy Anne Salz
So it does exist. However, it's, as I said, not new. You have to think about, well, how do I rise above the noise? How do I make it very clear that I'm offering value? How do I get from free trial to a paid subscriber?
[00:11:56.490] - Peggy Anne Salz
Then there is another school of thought. Why even bother with a free trial? Maybe that's not good. For some apps, that's not good. For some apps, it's almost like you don't know your price and you should have maybe different prices for different types of audiences to overcome that, to get their attention or to say, "Look, we have a way of offering you value that you can afford and that you will appreciate."
[00:12:18.330] - Peggy Anne Salz
Yes, it does exist. But then the challenge again is to discuss and approach customers in a way that resonates with what they value. I'll just skip ahead here a bit to something that I'm looking at a lot, and that is the idea of understanding what customers value is a way to overcome that fatigue and also to compete more effectively.
[00:12:45.850] - Peggy Anne Salz
Yes, I do need to know the demographics of my audience. I absolutely have to know the psychographics of my audience. These are two data sets, if you will, that will allow me to personalise my offer, that will allow me to implement marketing that makes sense, so I'm talking to the right audience on the right channels. It's all of the data that I have because, of course, identifiers I do not have. So I need to stitch this together differently.
[00:13:12.820] - Peggy Anne Salz
Then valuegraphics is a third data set that is about what people value. Now, I can go into that in a bit of detail in a bit, but the three of them together allow you to compete more effectively.
[00:13:25.140] - Olivier Destrebecq
You said psychographics earlier, and I'm like, I need a definition of that one. Do you mind giving you a definition?
[00:13:32.320] - Peggy Anne Salz
No problem at all. Demographics are your age, your gender, location, maybe possibly other details; earnings, what have you, how many people in the household or whatever that data, that very basic data. The psychographics, this goes really well for games, and gaming, this is a science. You have to... Actually, the best marketing by none always starts in gaming somewhere because they nailed this because they were digital only product from beginning to end, so they had to figure this out.
[00:14:05.890] - Peggy Anne Salz
The psychographics is your motivation. What type of person are you? So it's the more granular segmentation. It's understanding oftentimes from your behavior in the app, but also outside of the app and other channels if you have that insight to figure out, okay, what are you? What type of user are you? A diehard user? Are you a champion user?
[00:14:27.210] - Peggy Anne Salz
I love it in gaming because they have game refineries. One of these companies, but there are others that look at the motivations. Are you competitive? Are you a social animal? And based on that view into you as a person, you as a segment, again, that impacts and allows you to shape the advertising accordingly.
[00:14:46.440] - Peggy Anne Salz
If I know that you're a social animal and that social really matters to you, then I'm going to emphasise in my marketing to your segment the fact that in my game, you don't play alone, you play with others and you have your leaderboard and you can chat or you can work with other players and build a fort or do whatever.
[00:15:07.220] - Peggy Anne Salz
So understanding what motivates people allows you, again, to target your advertising and your communications. So you're speaking to what moves them. What moves them ultimately moves the needle on your marketing. That's the way it works together.
[00:15:21.860] - Nicolas Tissier
Fair and trusting. But how do you collect this data, actually? Do you ask it directly to your user during the onboarding or is it...
[00:15:30.910] - Peggy Anne Salz
You can do some of that, but mostly what you're going to do is you're going to get that through your CRM systems. You're going to understand, okay, what channels brought these users in? What are they doing in my app? What are they doing most often? Then from behavior, that gives you the psychographics. Then you understand and you model and understand the motivations.
[00:15:51.490] - Peggy Anne Salz
Now, valuegraphics is another data set that we'll be hearing a lot more about because there's a book coming out soon. There has been some research. Now it's going to be even more compelling, more in depth. And that starts with, to your point, Nicholas, it was asking people.
[00:16:07.090] - Peggy Anne Salz
So it was a survey of 750,000 people around the world to understand what they value, and then using that data to come up with commonalities. In essence, 56 core values that we share as human beings. And depending where you are in that value scale, that's another lens through which to see you.
[00:16:28.160] - Peggy Anne Salz
If I understand, for example, one value that unites us as human beings, which I think is fascinating, is the need to belong. It's number one, Number one is the need to belong.
[00:16:38.350] - Peggy Anne Salz
Now, it's interesting that in different regions, that belonging is different. So in Africa, for example, it's about family and society, whereas in the US and North America, it's more about belonging in the sense of belonging to any group, not just your family. So understanding these nuances, again, is very important.
[00:16:58.310] - Peggy Anne Salz
But interestingly, okay, that's the value. If you understand that your target audience considers that important, then you know how to work that into your marketing.
[00:17:07.980] - Peggy Anne Salz
Another interesting value is purpose and sort of saving the planet and those types of values. If you understand that, then you would emphasise, for example, how your app allows people to make a greater contribution to the greater good or something like that.
[00:17:23.760] - Peggy Anne Salz
I'm just using examples here, but a marketer would understand how to bring that into the conversation, the point is that the data exists that allows you to segment audiences that way so that when you are speaking to them, it really and truly does strike a chord. It speaks to what they value.
[00:17:40.600] - Olivier Destrebecq
Have you seen any company applying also the valuegraphics not just to marketing, but also to product? Where did that get them or what's the power behind that for the product side?
[00:17:52.910] - Peggy Anne Salz
Well, it's early days, but I expect this to be extremely important. That's why my next book is going to be focused on how to apply valuegraphics, talking with marketers, asking them. Because when you ask them, they're like, "Oh, makes perfect sense."
[00:18:08.150] - Peggy Anne Salz
I mean, I've done several panels now and moderated in Pocket Gamer Helsinki, also for DMEXCO, the marketing event in Cologne for the marketing industry. When you say, does it make sense or does it make business sense to consider what your audience's value and to integrate this into your marketing communications? They're like, "Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, 100%." Are they doing it? Early days.
[00:18:33.720] - Peggy Anne Salz
What's going to force this? What's going to be a driver is the amount and quality of data we have. Remember, we've been through a lot. I mean, you ask marketers, what was it? The pandemic or was it ATT? That was the biggest change. For many, that was the bigger change. So we're adapting to that, and that's going to be something that's around for a long time to figure out the workarounds, to figure out how to market in this privacy first world. Now, privacy first world is a good thing, but it changes how we approach marketing.
[00:19:04.790] - Peggy Anne Salz
It will also change product, obviously. What I value will be part of that product. You're seeing it now more than ever, probably. It's an offshoot, if you will, from insisting and demanding that companies stand for something. And that was something we saw start about two years ago and go full scale since companies need to stand for something.
[00:19:27.520] - Peggy Anne Salz
Is that inclusive? Is it understanding and embracing diversity? Is it sustainability? Is it something else? We demand this of our companies and we demand that of our products.
[00:19:38.940] - Peggy Anne Salz
So long answer to your question, Olivier, is yes, it does impact product because what we value is also what we will buy. You see that in sustainability, a lot of that in products that are just better for the environment, or you're seeing it now in recycling, ton of recycling. You don't buy new clothes, you upscale what you have.
[00:19:59.440] - Olivier Destrebecq
It really points to talking to your customers and knowing your customers so you even know that extra set of data about them and what value they value, I guess. That's fascinating.
[00:20:10.840] - Olivier Destrebecq
We've talked a lot about the recession and subscription fatigue, but it remains true that subscriptions today are, I want to say, the dominant model and works really well. Do you have any explanation as to why you think subscription are so successful?
[00:20:25.850] - Peggy Anne Salz
They're successful from two perspectives. Marketers know that this model works. It is the model that is also enabled and encouraged by the app stores. There's nothing better in unpredictable times than some level of predictable income.
[00:20:44.300] - Peggy Anne Salz
Of course, also, I think there's a level. The more I speak with VCs and other companies, that there's a level of VC interest in LTV and understanding that a company that they have invested in is going to deliver. The best way to show that is, again, LTV numbers that you can count on from a subscription model.
[00:21:07.140] - Peggy Anne Salz
At one level, it's the monetisation and the security, and it's something you can build upon as a marketer. But I think there is a little bit of pressure coming as well from the VC community. I think they want to see that, too.
[00:21:18.910] - Peggy Anne Salz
So if you put those two together, and of course, it works as a model, it's proven. It has been growing steadily, but I think a push comes through. Yeah, guess what? We didn't go out for two years. We had a little bit more money to throw at this. I talked about the beginning.
[00:21:36.880] - Peggy Anne Salz
I mean, we saw streaming apps explode, need I say more, because that was all we had. Now, of course, we have more, that's great but the habit is there. So a little bit of us as consumers, our habits, but also marketers, companies looking at an income they can predict or an LTV they can better model and VCs who certainly want to see that. They want to see those numbers.
[00:22:00.000] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yeah. What strikes me in your answer is a lot of it is from the business side, that it has a lot of benefits from the business side. I can still remember in the early days of subscription where the company had this conversation of should we go with subscription? Should we stay or pay one time fee and then use it as long as you want?
[00:22:18.120] - Peggy Anne Salz
Or do both?
[00:22:18.810] - Olivier Destrebecq
Or do both. Yeah. Those were definitely some great conversations. It's interesting to see that now, 5, 10 years down the road, the biggest benefit is still for the company, it sounds like?
[00:22:28.480] - Peggy Anne Salz
It is. I mean, for me, if you think about just... We talk about subscription apps and we think about the things that we do in our lifestyle. But for me, I have a set it and forget it mentality with all the productivity apps that I own, I will have them... I don't even know how long I have them. I don't look at it because it's become a part of how I function with my work-life balance, so to speak. That line has completely disintegrated whether we like it or not.
[00:22:57.130] - Peggy Anne Salz
So at some level, it's also, for me, it's just convenience. I know that I have it. Something like Dashlane, be serious. Am I ever going to not want to have all my passwords? And would I really want to export them and put them someplace else? There's this level of forget it as well. I think it's yes, it's monetisation, it's good for the marketers. But there's a level of convenience depending on the app genre that you can just, sort of, you know it's sorted.
[00:23:21.930] - Nicolas Tissier
But from a user perspective, I think it also works because it fully aligns the interest between the user and the developer. In front of the money I give to you as a user, I will get more value out of your product because you will be able to enrich it to bring more content and so on. If the value you bring is lasting in time, then it makes sense. It comes back to what you are saying at the beginning. Then it makes sense to subscribe to the product and to pay in a recurring manner, I would say.
[00:23:56.200] - Nicolas Tissier
I think users are also very attracted by this model because they can benefit from concrete value in their day to day, and it's not just one time that they buy. Then they're not buying actually an app itself, they're buying some value in their day to day.
[00:24:12.360] - Peggy Anne Salz
Absolutely. To your point, we're going to be reviewing that probably, which is why this is like a very good time for marketers to be thinking about, okay, so how do I demonstrate value? Because it's the end of the year and we're thinking about how we're going to be going into the new year and what costs are we going to take with us into the new year. It's a great time to think about reestablishing that tie if you have it and also being more flexible.
[00:24:40.400] - Peggy Anne Salz
Some people will be able to pay certain levels or buy into certain packages and some people won't. And why would you... I love the analogy I had way at the start of mobile marketing. It was about whether or not to market to Android or Apple back in the day. There were people like... The argument was, imagine you have a supermarket, would you seriously say that we only want Jeeps and four wheel drive cars and no other car can enter our parking lot? We're not going to sell to them. That would be insane. Why would you do that? Why would you limit your audience? There's enough problems in the world.
[00:25:17.950] - Peggy Anne Salz
This is similar. It's like being flexible is a way to still pick up all the pockets of profit and possibility along the way. I think that as we move into a recession or slowdown, whatever you want to call it, stagflation, the point is people are reevaluating their choices, their life choices, their costs, their fixed costs. What am I going to do every month? What does it bring me? It's a good time to reexamine what you as a marketer are also looking at as far as your offer.
[00:25:49.940] - Peggy Anne Salz
Do you want to stay with that one price for all type of offer? Do you want to consider different approaches? And is there a problem with that? Or is that just an opportunity you need to look at because why leave money on the table? That makes no sense. Makes sense right now to me. So it's I'm all for experimentation and take what you can.
[00:26:11.480] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yeah. It sounds like at least one advice that you'd have for people looking to get a subscription to work is to make sure to cover Apple and Android and get the money from both sides from everything that you've seen. Because you're reading a lot of content and you're creating a lot of content, is there any must has for a subscription to work well that you've seen that you could share with us?
[00:26:33.680] - Peggy Anne Salz
Probably the usual suspects, but it doesn't harm to call them out again because I find that when you hear something three or four times and you know, hey, that really is best practice. What I hear working really well is refreshing the content consistently, constantly keeping a voice in that content. Some add-ons are working for the content.
[00:26:55.940] - Peggy Anne Salz
I was disrespecting recommendation engines a little bit earlier, but actually at the end of the day, to say, here's what you've been doing and here's what we offer that is aligned with this. This is not necessarily like a Netflix model. This, I think, is just surfacing for us the content that you have because we're not always going to see it.
[00:27:15.810] - Peggy Anne Salz
Just if you think about the scrolling effort that it takes to find everything, right? So surface it for us. I'm seeing that work a lot. So this like these shortcut approaches.
[00:27:25.880] - Peggy Anne Salz
But that again is content that's just very intelligently chosen and curated content. So yes, content refresh, content curation, content recommendation.
[00:27:36.480] - Peggy Anne Salz
In marketing, what I'm seeing also is mapping your marketing to your customer lifecycle. So, for example, educational content and the onboarding and then mid-funnel. It's demonstrating a different value to get people to engage or reengage or go deeper.
[00:27:56.150] - Peggy Anne Salz
So mapping more of the marketing, not just to what you think needs to happen from a performance perspective, but personalising that marketing to lifecycle from a CRM perspective. I think that gives us a good list.
[00:28:10.010] - Peggy Anne Salz
There's nothing new and astounding and pathbreaking there, except I think really the challenge and the opportunity is to perfect performance marketing in this new world and making it more personalised. So content, context and communications, my 3Cs, which I just thought of at this moment, so I'm really inspired. It must be those three, indeed.
[00:28:35.520] - Olivier Destrebecq
I really liked the last one that you mentioned of adapting the education content that you give to your user based on where they are in their customer journey because as you said, they'll need different things. And that also showed that you know them and you pay attention to them. So that resonates a lot with me.
[00:28:52.940] - Nicolas Tissier
Yes. So you mentioned also the values and the values particularly, they are embodied in the brand in general. I was just wondering how much important is it to have an attractive brand to be able to retain your subscribers? How can app developers leverage on their brand, especially when it's new, to try to engage new customers and retain their subscribers?
[00:29:20.040] - Peggy Anne Salz
It's interesting that you mentioned brand because that is truly top of mind at the conferences with the marketers. Everything I'm doing, people are talking about brand because that is a way to rise above the noise. That's a way to make an impression. That's a way to fill the funnel because it's about awareness.
[00:29:40.720] - Peggy Anne Salz
So everybody, yes, they want to have a brand. There are these other studies that show that most of the searches in the app stores are for brands. We go in there with a very distinct idea. We're not just looking around anymore. It's not entirely travel to discover apps. It's like I'm looking for this one because I saw it here and there. I mean, how many apps are investing and correctly so?
[00:30:04.280] - Peggy Anne Salz
Television, radio, print, I'm hearing. I mean, look at something like the Super Bowl ad. A QR code bouncing around on a black screen and then you see app downloads, installs for that app. I think they went up like 300%. It was huge. A massive increase.
[00:30:23.600] - Peggy Anne Salz
You have to create a brand. Now, how do you create a brand? That's a show in itself, but it starts with having a value that your audience is willing to pay for or feels it can identify with.
[00:30:36.460] - Peggy Anne Salz
There's a level of what kind of marketing goes into that. Is it influencer? Mostly nano and micro influencers, by the way. Celebrities is not exactly the way to go. Word of mouth, the whole thing. I mean, that's marketing 101 right there.
[00:30:50.320] - Peggy Anne Salz
But the interesting point that you're bringing up is that, yes, because you want to have a subscription model, you want people to pay for the value you're delivering, and you also want to rise above the noise absolutely makes sense to invest in your brand. How you do that will be different from case to case.
[00:31:06.100] - Peggy Anne Salz
But one thing about it is marketing is a two-way conversation, which means that you do not just market, but you listen. So it makes sense to look at social channels. Lots of marketing going on WhatsApp. A lot of things happening beyond the buy button on something like Facebook.
[00:31:24.730] - Peggy Anne Salz
And listening. A lot of marketers I'm talking with as well who are looking at those reviews. Those reviews give you clues to what people value and what you need to be emphasising.
[00:31:35.540] - Peggy Anne Salz
There are always the big ways of doing things. There's the big way of throwing money at something and saying, "We're going to build a brand and we're going to get a logo and we're going to get an agency and we're going to do this, and we're going to do that."
[00:31:46.160] - Peggy Anne Salz
Then there's just saying, "Okay, we're going to listen to what people are telling us, and we're going to talk to people in a certain way based on what we know about their behavior and their values. And we're going to read reviews. We're going to check out Reddit. We're going to get involved in these conversations." That's something any marketer can do.
[00:32:02.760] - Nicolas Tissier
Yeah, I love it. Very interesting perspective.
[00:32:06.100] - Peggy Anne Salz
Review mining, it's going to be big. There you have it. I've just told you what I love about it. And if you're watching me on social and you see me telling the whole world like I am probably one of them. I don't know where I would rate, but I'm probably like a superhero user of Grammarly. They give me these badges. They've run out of badges to give me.
[00:32:29.340] - Peggy Anne Salz
You get up to a certain level of how many millions of words you have checked since 2015, it's like it's off the charts. But the point there is that it's something that simple. It's that little bit of recognition. They know what I'm doing. It's just a little something. It's a little nudge, a little badge, a little show, something that simple. Yeah, and they understand how I'm using their product. It's not rocket science is what I want to say.
[00:32:55.160] - Olivier Destrebecq
Yeah. Unfortunately, we're getting to the end of our time together. But there's one thing I want to ask you, because you're the first person that I met that has mentioned valuegraphics. I'm wondering if you have any links or sites or books that you'd recommend to people to get their hands on so they can learn more. Obviously, you said you're working on a book on how to apply it. So if you can tell us a little bit more about that, too, that would be awesome.
[00:33:17.240] - Peggy Anne Salz
Yeah, absolutely. It's the newer book is coming out, I believe, end of November. It's called the Valuegraphics Project. I can't take credit for it, and I won't, but I'm a huge fan of David Allison and his team that came up with this complete project and the surveys and the analysis of the data. Ever since I have connected with him this year, I've written about him on Forbes. I've had him on multiple panels. I'm completely sold because as he describes it, and I love the way he describes it, it's like a three legged stool.
[00:33:48.450] - Peggy Anne Salz
You have your demographics, you have your psychographics, and now valuegraphics on top of all of that. And why? Because what matters to us matters to us, that's why. Because that is something that influences our purchase decision, our decision to subscribe or not, our decision to stay loyal or not. What matters matters and that's based on values.
[00:34:09.570] - Peggy Anne Salz
But I'd be happy to provide that to your audience, as I said, valuegraphics Project and the book, which is always on my shelf. We Are All the Same Age Now was the first one, and the second one is coming.
[00:34:21.780] - Olivier Destrebecq
Okay, awesome. The book that you're working on on applying valuegraphics?
[00:34:27.750] - Peggy Anne Salz
The one I'm working on is I'm so excited by this. I've spoken also with David about this, is it's like, he's got the data, he's got the stuff, he's got the framework, solid. I want to show how marketers can and are, importantly, are approaching this and applying this.
[00:34:47.590] - Peggy Anne Salz
So if the idea is when you understand and you run through all the data, because his company will do things like, be able to tell you about your audience and do all of the heavy lifting. And once you have that, well, what do you do? How does that impact your marketing? How does it look different? What are strategies that work? What are those first interesting experiments? That's what I want to document.
[00:35:10.040] - Peggy Anne Salz
If that's the strategy and the framework, how do you apply it? That will be my book. And that's something that will be down the road 2023. It'll be my 10th book, but it'll probably be my most exciting one.
[00:35:22.000] - Olivier Destrebecq
Awesome. Looking forward to it.
[00:35:23.620] - Nicolas Tissier
Looking forward to it. I agree.
[00:35:27.040] - Olivier Destrebecq
Well, again, I really want to thank you for joining us today on the podcast. You were a great guest, and you gave us some great value. So really, thank you very much. It was awesome.
[00:35:35.180] - Peggy Anne Salz
Well, thank you so much.
[00:35:36.010] - Nicolas Tissier
Thank you very much. We had a lot of fun.
[00:35:38.080] - Peggy Anne Salz
Thank you. I did the same. Yeah, it was great questions, great conversation. Not often I have a good vibe like this. I have to thank you as well.
[00:35:47.880] - Olivier Destrebecq
Thank you. And thanks for the tips here and there. That was great.
[00:35:50.320] - Nicolas Tissier
Thank you very much, Peggy Anne. Bye-bye.