Kovalee - Turning ordinary apps into worldwide leaders with Vincent Hart de Keating

[00:00:01.360] - Olivier Destrebecq
Welcome to the Subscription League, a podcast by Purchasely. Listen to what's working in subscription apps. In each episode, we invite leaders of the app industry who are mastering the subscription model for mobile apps. To learn more about subscriptions, head to subscriptionleague.com. Let's get started.

[00:00:20.000] - Olivier Destrebecq
Welcome to the show, everybody. Today, I'm super thrilled because I have Vincent Hart de Keating, CEO at Kovalee, who is joining us today. How are you doing, Vincent?

[00:00:30.020] - Vincent Hart de Keating
I'm really good. Thank you, Olivier.

[00:00:31.710] - Olivier Destrebecq
We also have Jeff, who's fresh back from the US at MAU. How are you doing, Jeff?

[00:00:36.660] - Jeff Grang
I'm tired, but I'm great. Happy to be here today.

[00:00:39.630] - Olivier Destrebecq
Thanks for waking up for us today. Vincent, you are today's CEO and founder at Kovalee, but you're also founder of Homa and publisher of some of the fastest-growing apps like Band, which is top 10 in the US. Can you tell us a bit more, actually, about what it takes to publish some of those big apps?

[00:01:02.040] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The interesting part is that when we start publishing them, they are not yet big. It's our job to turn them into worldwide leaders. That's exactly what we do at Kovalee. Identifying apps with really high potential and turn this potential into worldwide leaders.

[00:01:23.120] - Olivier Destrebecq
We'll dig into that a little bit more because I want to learn how to do that. I've got 25 minutes to learn everything I can from you. But before that, you're actually a brand-new dad. You're just back from paternity leave.

[00:01:33.040] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yes.

[00:01:33.500] - Olivier Destrebecq
Non-technical question. What did you learn about in those last few weeks?

[00:01:39.360] - Vincent Hart de Keating
I had to remember how to take care of a newborn, which is not always easy how to deal with the lack of sleep, but it's really wonderful times. I wish it to everyone. With the proper preparation, it's completely possible to take a couple of weeks off and enjoy those moments, even when you're a CEO of a fast-growing startup.

[00:02:01.750] - Vincent Hart de Keating
What I've learned is that actually the Kovalee team is pretty autonomous now. It's good thing to realize that operationally, you are useless. That's the goal, I think, as any CEO.

[00:02:13.630] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yeah, taking a bit of time off, taking care of my kids and family really allowed me also to take a step back on Kovalee on the publishing on the mobile app market and redefine some top priorities for the rest of the year. That's a really good exercise as well.

[00:02:28.690] - Jeff Grang
It's very good that we remain one of your priority post paternity leave because we did the preparation before you actually been a dad for a second time. Congrats, Vincent.

[00:02:39.400] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Thank you. Thank you very much.

[00:02:40.440] - Olivier Destrebecq
Congratulations and welcome to the world, Albert, right? Or Albert, since he's French. Back to the topic a little bit. You're, as I said, CEO and founder at Kovalee, what are the big milestones that brought you there? You didn't just got out of school and founded Kovalee. I'm curious what got you there?

[00:02:58.170] - Vincent Hart de Keating
No, absolutely. I basically discovered entrepreneurship by accident in Berlin. At the end of my studies, I had a chance to work with a great founder called Jan Bakers, who is one of the most successful German entrepreneur alongside with Tim Koschella founder of Kayzen now, still in the mobile app space.

[00:03:17.300] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Basically those guys, they made me realize that it was not only great to build startups, but possible without being a Steve Jobs or like an extraordinary genius. Just need to have a good idea in a growing market and be able to work three times harder than anyone else, which is not the easiest part.

[00:03:39.190] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Following this example, after three years working alongside them in Berlin, I created a second company in the digital recruitment area. Then I decided to go back to a more global market when I joined another company in the mobile app space doing mobile user acquisition.

[00:03:53.390] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Then I created Homa Games, so mobile game publisher following the trend of Voodoo, Ketchapp in France. We had really strong skills in mobile user acquisition, so we managed to get the other skills that were necessary and created one of the most successful mobile gaming publisher out there.

[00:04:12.690] - Vincent Hart de Keating
That's when I reconnected with Damien, my cofounder and CTO at Kovalee. Damien basically is an expert of non-gaming mobile apps on the tech side. He spent the last 10 years building tool for mobile apps and he also developed a lot of non-gaming mobile apps on his free time with community of developers.

[00:04:31.210] - Vincent Hart de Keating
While I was still managing Homa, he came to me and said, "But why do you limit this business model, the publishing business model to games? It has so much potential also outside of gaming." That's where we decided to give it a shot and to bring the publishing model outside of gaming, and that's why we decided to build Kovalee.

[00:04:51.030] - Olivier Destrebecq
Awesome. Actually, why don't you tell us, what is the role of a publisher?

[00:04:55.970] - Vincent Hart de Keating
It's very simple. The role of a publisher is to enable the app creator to focus on what they do best, the content and the code of the app, while we take care of the parts that they master a bit less, let's say. Meaning a publisher will take care of the product part.

[00:05:12.660] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We work on UX/UI design. We'll take care of the app store optimization, like optimize the ASO for any storefront for iOS and Android. We take care of the user acquisition and we pay for everything.

[00:05:28.350] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The publisher pays for everything. The partner, the app creator, they never pay us. That's very important to understand in the model. We also manage the monetization, all the A/B tests you can do about the pricing, about the subscription length and so on, which is a topic that Jeff knows pretty well.

[00:05:45.820] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Basically, you have six pillars to make an app very successful. Content, that's the first one. Without extraordinary content, you cannot have a worldwide leader. Code, and those two parts are on the app creator side. We take care of product, ASO, user acquisition, and monetization. We pay for everything. We collect the revenues and we share the profits on the long term.

[00:06:09.040] - Vincent Hart de Keating
It's very different from an agency that will invoice at the end of the month, regardless of the performance. If a publisher, if Kovalee doesn't perform, we don't get paid and it doesn't cost anything to the partner. When we perform, when we need to generate profits, that's where on the long term we make revenues.

[00:06:24.650] - Olivier Destrebecq
That must make you pretty selective about what app you publish, is the term. What criteria do you guys use?

[00:06:32.860] - Vincent Hart de Keating
On this regard, we're a bit like a VC, like an investment fund. We have in total, I think it's 23 different parameters that we take into account for the selection of the apps.

[00:06:43.960] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The first ones are related to the app itself. We are looking basically for extraordinary content in ordinary apps. We have identified a few KPIs related to engagement, relating to session times that will enable us to say, "Okay, this app has a little something that others don't. If we manage to leverage this, we can have a really good app."

[00:07:07.960] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Some criteria is related to the app itself and then a lot of criteria is related to the team behind the app. What's the company behind? How many people are they? What's their expertise in terms of content? How many people do they have for content creation? How many people do they have for coding? What's their track record? Did they already build very successful mobile apps or not? What's their ambition? Do they really want to be number one, or would they be happy with an app that just does like 50K per month? Because if they are not super ambitious, there is no way the partnership will work.

[00:07:38.310] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We look at all this and we look at the fit between, of course, the Kovalee team, the squad that is going to work on the app, and their team. Because once an app creator signs with Kovalee, instantly, they get a whole team working with them on a daily basis. People on UA, on ASO, on product, creatives.

[00:07:55.970] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We do all the creatives also. That's something I didn't mention, but part of the user acquisition is the creatives. We build everything in-house. If there is a good fit, if we think it can be a good work collaboration, then we are willing to sign a contract.

[00:08:08.370] - Olivier Destrebecq
What is your ideal partner profile?

[00:08:10.580] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Company of just below 10 people with a very serious app, really good expertise in terms of content and the will to go to the moon.

[00:08:18.740] - Olivier Destrebecq
Can indie developer apply?

[00:08:20.480] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yes, of course. Absolutely. Some examples of the apps that are very successful at the moment you have some apps, they are less than five people. It's possible to be number one just with a really small team when you work with Kovalee.

[00:08:32.190] - Jeff Grang
Can you give us some example of apps that you've helped? I'd be curious also to know if they operate in the same app category of operating specific categories yourself, or if you are on every App Store category.

[00:08:44.490] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We've built a method and technologies that can work on any kind of mobile app. We are not focused on just one segment of the store, we work on every potential vertical of the store. This method has worked really well for health and fitness apps, really.

[00:09:01.810] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We mentioned Bend, number one stretching app worldwide. Since a couple of months, we've been working with them. It's an amazing team called Bowery Digital. They reached the goal to be number one. It used to be a team of two, by the way. I know they're a bit more because they can afford it, but very small team at the beginning.

[00:09:20.490] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We work with really good app in the motivational space called PepTalk, like really expert about motivation, 5,000 pieces of audio and video around motivation.

[00:09:30.960] - Vincent Hart de Keating
If you want to really be pumped up in the beginning of your day, you can use PepTalk. It's amazing, and it's one of the only app I know that has a rating above 4.9 on the store with thousands of ratings. This app people love it, and now we managed to make it the best motivational app on the store.

[00:09:47.210] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We work so with nutrition app, fasting app like CLEAR. We work with AI image generation app called Mage AI. Very interesting product. I don't know, in total, we have like around 15 apps right now in the portfolio. We have fitness apps like WeBurn as well. It's pretty diverse.

[00:10:06.360] - Olivier Destrebecq
That's pretty good.

[00:10:07.830] - Jeff Grang
There's a lot of trends on the App Store. What do you feel is going to be the next big trend? We had Family Tech, FamTech. These were maybe the last recent waves on the App Store. What do you feel is the emerging category or maybe emerging app category on the App Store that are coming out?

[00:10:25.190] - Vincent Hart de Keating
It has already emerged, but it's just the beginning, AI apps. We will have a brand new generation of apps using AI, and we will revisit absolutely all the verticals, but with AI-powered apps.

[00:10:38.890] - Jeff Grang
Don't you feel like it's going to be more an OS feature to improve each and every screen, more than one application?

[00:10:45.470] - Vincent Hart de Keating
No, I think it will change a lot the mobile app that we're using. Maybe not just an OS feature. Take a nutrition app, for instance, based on your preferences with AI, it's way more simple to have very specific and diverse menus, recipes and so on. It will make it easier for user to access exactly what they need inside apps. I really believe we will have a whole new generation of mobile apps powered by AI.

[00:11:12.750] - Olivier Destrebecq
Interesting. You've told us everything that you guys do for apps that you publish and make it sound very appealing, and you guys are really doing a lot. I'm curious about the structure of the contract that is generally the publishing contract, because I'm sure you don't do that out of the goodness of your heart, even though maybe you do, but never know. What does that usually look like?

[00:11:33.490] - Vincent Hart de Keating
It's a long-term partnership. First of all, it's very important to understand that it's a profit sharing on the duration of the life of the app. If a partner is not willing to share everything and wants to keep control of everything, it's useless to contact us, basically.

[00:11:49.190] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We have long-term contracts. The profit sharing is very simple. We look at all the revenues net from the cut of Apple and Google, we don't take that into account. We deduce the user acquisition cost, a very small percentage of revenues as tool fees because we have lots of technologies, we'll talk about that later, and it gives us the profits and that's what we share with the partner.

[00:12:14.880] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Long-term profit-sharing contract with very clear responsibilities on both sides. The IP stays with the partner, the app creator. We don't have ambition on the IP. That's their content, that's their code, that's their expertise. But the commercial license is for Kovalee during the term of the contract.

[00:12:34.850] - Olivier Destrebecq
Roughly how much do you invest into each app when they first join you guys?

[00:12:39.650] - Vincent Hart de Keating
At the beginning, usually, it's small amounts. It will be a few hundred per day. Then our tools will actually change the daily budget by themselves based on the forecasted return on net spend that we see on the campaign.

[00:12:52.650] - Vincent Hart de Keating
It goes from 200 a day to 30K, 50K a day. That's where we are right now with some apps. And hopefully, we do the same podcast in six months, I will tell you 100K a day. But basically our tools will increase the budgets if the campaigns are super profitable. If they are not profitable, the tool will decrease the budget and the bids. That's the automation that we've done.

[00:13:15.520] - Olivier Destrebecq
I'm Olivier, I've got this great application. I've got the will to be number one. I will work seven days a week. Maybe not seven days a week, but I will work three times as hard as everybody else and I finally make it into Kovalee. What does the first few weeks look like?

[00:13:29.520] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The first week, you will implement all our tools. We will soon have two weeks normally, the Kovalee SDK, where you will be able to integrate everything in just two hours. But for now, it will take you like from two days to one week, depending on your skills.

[00:13:44.270] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Once all the tools are implemented, our technologies for ASO, for product, for user acquisition, for monetization can work. From there, the team will establish with you a product roadmap. We identify quick wins. We have a tool that tells us, based on the metrics of this app, that's where you're strong in comparison to the benchmark, that's where you lag behind. We use external benchmark, but we use also our internal data of all the apps. We'll easily tell you that's where we need to work first. Maybe it's the onboarding. We'll do a first A/B test.

[00:14:19.250] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The way it works is that the product team will define A/B tests. If it's on the onboarding, we'll say the goal is to get your onboarding completion rate from 60% to 90%. And to do that, we have three different onboardings that we want to test. This is the current one. This is the second one that we've prepared, and we send you the screens, and this is the third one that's very different. Maybe we'll have a short, long, medium. I don't know. You implement them in the app, we submit a new version.

[00:14:46.350] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Our A/B testing technology will dispatch the new users towards those three version, and our technology will forecast the future lifetime value for each of those versions separately. After one week, we'll look at the intermediary KPI, what's the onboarding completion rate? We'll also look at the future lifetime value per version.

[00:15:04.630] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Basically on your side, from the moment you sign a contract with us till the end, you will work a lot on setting up those A/B tests. We will ask your help from some brainstorming session on the creatives. We will, of course, start with kickoff meetings with you and all the teams to understand your vision about the app, to understand what you have tried already, what worked, what didn't work. We will learn also from your past experiences to make sure we don't repeat the same mistakes.

[00:15:32.050] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We will tell you everything about our method, which is like test and learn every step of the way. For product you understood with this A/B testing technology, but it's the same for creatives, for user acquisition, for monetization, for absolutely everything that we do. Even in ASO, our tool will tell us if a change was positive or negative so we roll back when necessary.

[00:15:50.500] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We test, we measure, we choose the winner, we iterate again everywhere. In this way, there is only one way your app can go, it's up. Fast or more slowly, depending on how successful we are with the test that we propose, but you never go back.

[00:16:08.040] - Olivier Destrebecq
It sounds like there's a lot of collaboration and [inaudible 00:16:12] the founder of the team definitely get to participate to all that. I'm curious, what are the biggest benefits of having a publisher today for apps?

[00:16:21.130] - Vincent Hart de Keating
But for the app creators, it's like from the moment you sign, you get a team of experts. You get the best guys around for user acquisition, for ASO for you. They work on your app from one day to the other, huge benefit.

[00:16:35.250] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We all know how difficult it is to hire experts in the mobile app space. Imagine if app creators really have to build the whole team by themselves. It's a lot of management, it's a lot of recruitment effort. You're not sure that the guys are really good sometimes if you're not yourself an expert.

[00:16:51.320] - Vincent Hart de Keating
With Kovalee right now, first benefit, you have a team of experts. Second benefit, you access the best tools of the market. If we think that a tool like Purchasely is necessary to grow and scale the apps quickly, we take Purchasely. And for the app creator, it doesn't cost anything. That's part of what we bring. But on top of that, we have also created unique technologies. Every time we've identified that the technologies on the market were not doing what we needed, we created them.

[00:17:19.450] - Vincent Hart de Keating
For user acquisition, for instance, we created a tool that fully automates all the marketing campaigns, fully; scan or non-scan. If a campaign is profitable on Facebook, the tool will increase the budget and the bids. If the tool identifies that for some keyword on Apple search ads campaign performs well, it will increase. It will decrease also the bid for the keywords that don't bring high LTV.

[00:17:39.710] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The tools, they make thousands of changes on a daily basis. They work on Facebook, on Google, on Apple search ads, on AppLovin, on TikTok, Snapchat, everything you can imagine. It's plugged, it works, and it's smart. Those tools, if you want to have them, you have to work with Kovalee today.

[00:17:57.500] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The team, expertise, technology, and funding, we say it's the fourth, but it's very important for some app creators that are actually really good already in terms of product. They have a good product. They just need to scale it and they don't have the money to invest 30K per day in user acquisition. It's one of the things that we bring as well.

[00:18:16.030] - Jeff Grang
Let's say that you've worked great with Olivier and made this app champion category. What are the next steps? Is it possible to make an exit after that? What are the typical way for an app editor to move on to the next step? What are these next steps?

[00:18:36.250] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yes. If the will of the app founder is to sell the app at some point, we have something that makes it possible in the agreement. We would, of course, take a piece. The goal with the publishing is that we are always aligned with the app creator. We should always have the same goals. If we have a discrepancy in terms of goals, it's not good. We see that with agencies, if they are not rewarded with the performance, they might do something that's not super useful for the app, but they get paid anyway.

[00:19:01.340] - Vincent Hart de Keating
The goal with the publishing is that really, we give the power back to app creators. That's why we created Kovalee. If at some point the ambition of the app creators is to sell the app, we will make it possible. We just make sure that Kovalee also benefits from the sale of the app, which makes sense because we've worked really hard.

[00:19:16.870] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Imagine if you are Olivier, because we have this example with your app-

[00:19:20.760] - Jeff Grang
Amazing app, by the way.

[00:19:22.490] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yeah, it's really good app.

[00:19:23.880] - Olivier Destrebecq
I should just retire.

[00:19:24.860] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Talk about that after the podcast.

[00:19:25.780] - Jeff Grang
We'll put the link in the episode.

[00:19:28.870] - Vincent Hart de Keating
But imagine that we are your cofounder, a choice of working with Kovalee it's like the choice of a cofounder. It's a very important one. If you exit, your cofounder will have something, of course.

[00:19:43.290] - Jeff Grang
We spoke a lot about different tools to assess the potential of an app and also to make it grow later. While preparing this episode, we discussed a lot about how you guys have built some impressive tools to help grow the apps that you publish. Can you tell us a little bit more about them and what motivated you?

[00:20:00.540] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yes, absolutely. What motivates us? We know that to be successful, we need to be really strong in terms of tech, because we can be successful as an app publisher only if a small team at Kovalee can handle a large number of apps.

[00:20:17.010] - Vincent Hart de Keating
To do that, we bet on two things: forecasting technologies and automation technologies that are plugged together. We need to completely master the data in every aspect and use this data to make smart decisions.

[00:20:29.540] - Vincent Hart de Keating
What we have seen is that for ASO, for user acquisition, for product, we have some pretty amazing tools out there, but they are limited in the sense that they give you some data, but they don't tell you what to do and they don't do themselves.

[00:20:46.220] - Vincent Hart de Keating
They are good support. They are like data provider. If you look at ASO tools, most of the ASO tools, they will tell you, you rank well on this keyword that has a lot of volume and not a lot of competition. Okay, great. What do I do with that?

[00:20:59.910] - Vincent Hart de Keating
For instance, on ASO, we created a tool that will take all this data and then that will say, for this app now in the US, you need to change the title. You need to put this keyword in the title. You need to put this one in the subtitle, and that's the new list of keywords you should use. Going further, the tool will automatically generate a title that makes sense in any language and push it directly to the store.

[00:21:26.170] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Let's say you don't have an army of people to do the apps optimization in Korea, in Thailand, in all the countries. We already have 15 apps, iOS, Android, that's 30. We are present in 25 countries for each of them. You see already it's complicated. You need already a lot of people to be extremely precise in all those countries.

[00:21:44.470] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Our goal is to be extremely precise in all those countries, but that's why we use smart technologies that will automatically update the ASO in all the storefronts with a really good level of precision. It's really good what the tool does. That's an example on the ASO side.

[00:22:00.760] - Vincent Hart de Keating
On user acquisition, I've told you that it already updates all the marketing campaigns at the highest level of granularity. For Apple search ads, it will update at the keyword level. For Facebook, it will update at the ad set or campaign level. For AppLovin or Unity or ironSource, it will update at the publisher level.

[00:22:18.680] - Vincent Hart de Keating
It's extremely precise in all the countries for all the campaigns every day. In some companies that we know, some competitors, they have 5-10 people in the user acquisition team for one app. At Kovalee, we have one UA manager for 5-10 apps, and we are above them in terms of volume and profits. Our bet, it's really like building smart technologies that will enable us to be very precise without an army of people. That's what we are doing.

[00:22:44.640] - Jeff Grang
How do you feel like on generative AI wave that is coming to us going to make these tools evolve?

[00:22:51.340] - Vincent Hart de Keating
We are already, for some tools, using some AI components.

[00:22:55.390] - Jeff Grang
Like generating keywords or descriptions?

[00:22:57.730] - Vincent Hart de Keating
For the ASO tool that I mentioned, once we know exactly which keywords we have to use in a title or subtitle. The AI today cannot tell us, "You should use this title or everything." They don't have all the mechanisms and so on. Maybe it will come in a few years or before that, we'll see. But once we have the exact words that we want for every language, an AI can build a title in less than 30 character that actually makes sense in the language. Because to be honest, I don't speak Korean really well.

[00:23:22.260] - Jeff Grang
We do have Bomi in our team that speaks Korean pretty well.

[00:23:26.930] - Vincent Hart de Keating
No, we have no one in the team that speaks Korean. But by the way, we have like 18 nationalities now in the team. So we also speak many languages.

[00:23:34.560] - Jeff Grang
Eighteen? Wow, it's pretty good.

[00:23:36.340] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yeah, very international team. It's a global market. It doesn't have really boundaries. So it makes sense from the beginning to be a very international team on our side.

[00:23:45.660] - Olivier Destrebecq
You mentioned that you have 15 apps published today in the store, iOS and Android. I'm sure you've done a lot of learning around monetization for mobile apps at this point. Any top of mind things that you could share with us?

[00:23:58.720] - Vincent Hart de Keating
I would say the first thing is that personalization, customization at the user level works every time. A very basic thing, let's take the example of PepTalk, for instance, the motivational app I mentioned earlier. If during the onboarding, people tell us that they are big fans of Oprah Winfrey for motivational content, on their home screen, they will see Oprah; basic, efficient.

[00:24:21.590] - Vincent Hart de Keating
You can always use some of the information provided by the user, either actively providing information during the onboarding or just by the way they use the app. You can use this to customize their experience in the app. It always leads to more engagement and higher lifetime.

[00:24:38.620] - Olivier Destrebecq
What you're saying, we keep hearing that one.

[00:24:40.970] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Yeah. You need to be able to segment very precisely your users. For that, you need, of course, to really master the data. You need to know exactly what's going on in your app with really strong analytical tools, and then you need to know how to act with them.

[00:24:54.660] - Olivier Destrebecq
You've given lots of value so far, and I'm sure people want to learn some more. If they want to learn more about Kovalee and potentially partner with you guys, where can they go?

[00:25:04.030] - Vincent Hart de Keating
kovalee.app, the website. You have a big button top right, partner with us. We would really be happy to discover your mobile app and see how we can help you making it number one.

[00:25:15.250] - Olivier Destrebecq
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was really nice to ask you all this question and discover more about the publishing model. It was really awesome. Thank you again.

[00:25:23.980] - Vincent Hart de Keating
Thanks a lot, Olivier. Thanks, Jeff.

[00:25:25.570] - Jeff Grang
Thanks, Vincent.

[00:25:26.960] - Olivier Destrebecq
On behalf of the Purchasely team, thank you for listening to the Subscription League podcast. If you've enjoyed what you heard, leave us a five-star review on iTunes or other audio platforms. To find out more about Purchasely and how we can improve your subscription business, visit purchasely.com.

[00:25:44.110] - Olivier Destrebecq
Please hit subscribe in your podcast player and don't miss any future episodes. You can also listen to previous episodes at subscriptionleague.com. See you soon.